Thoughts?
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Money would be way better spent on breastfeeding support & mentoring. However I do think a number of the UK policies regarding formula are good. No free samples, no points given on formula purchases, no vouchers for formula etc.
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@sea_bass: I agree! Other complications meant I had to spent the night in hospital and that really helped us getting breastfeeding established with help from the midwives. It's a shame that's not the norm here. I also go to a breastfeeding support group once a week run by midwives and peer supporters- that's something I could see myself becoming- it's great for meeting people and getting advice, not just about BF-ing. I don't know how common that is throughout the country though.
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@illumina: yes. I was in the hospital for 5 nights and received a lot of help from both midwives and breastfeeding volunteers. But what's happening is clearly not enough, particularly in deprived areas. It's very sad. Only 2 percent of babies are EBF till 6 months in the UK. Statistically the likelihood of a baby being breastfed in the UK is very closely linked to the area they are born into. Sad. Very sad.
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Seem like a good idea at heart, but they are going about it the wrong way. They are trying to get more mothers to breastfeed but just handing out money to those who say they are isn't the way to go.
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Money won't help. Only support/proper knowledge will.
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It seems like their goal is a good one (get more women who can to breastfeed), but I agree they aren't going about it the right way at all! They should try to offer more support to breastfeeding mothers and make it easier to nurse out of the home (like nursing rooms in malls and stuff) and make it easy to get access to LCs!
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On one hand I agree with it. I'm sure like here the government spends to of money to help support women to feed their babies formula (like wic) so why not help pay to offset some of the breastfeeding costs (nursing tops, bras, pads, shields, etc)
Eta: but I agree the money shouldn't be used as a bribe. Offering better support and passing laws to help support mothers would go much further. Things like pumpings/nursing rooms at public places.
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I'm not British, but as a FFing mama, this upsets me. I pay a ton of money of every month to feed my child, and someone else actually gets PAID to feed their child? Not okay.
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I have Facebook friends going nuts about this today. Hhonestly, I think they should either spend the money on support for parents regardless of how they choose to feed their baby (lactation support, support to come to terms with breastfeeding not working out, help to formula feed, etc) or if they really want to give breastfeeding mums something, how about something useful like a breast pump, nipple pads, nipple cream etc, to help them come with some of the issues like pain that often male mums stop breastfeeding.
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@photojane: Agreed....
This makes me really sad. Why do we feel the need to keep imposing/judging/bribing/persuading mothers? Why can't we explain the pros/cons of both feeding choices and then allow mothers the freedom to choose how they want to feed their baby without the judgement and labels that come along with it?
I don't think we need just more support for BFing....we need more support for FEEDING in general.
More support for just BFing often leads to excluding mothers who FF. I am a educated woman and yet when it came to being presented with BFing/FFing info, I was treated like a 5 year old child who couldn't possibly make a decision for myself. My "baby friendly" hospital was only friendly to babies who were breastfed. I had to beg/plead/cry for formula when my DD was starving at 4am - the answer was always "keep putting her to the breast". I had nurses come in and see the empty bottles and ask me: "Why is that here?" "Who gave that to you?" "Haven't you tried other BFing positions/techniques?" "You should have used a tube/syringe system because your baby will have nipple confusion" No one asked ME what I wanted to do or offer me tips for preparing/serving formula. I had to figure it all out on my own.
The highly emotional post partum period is not the time to be giving pressure/judgement to mothers. We need to be supporting them and offering them LOVE for how they choose to feed their child. The alternative to breastfeeding is not a toxic substance - it's healthy, nutritious formula that will allow babies to thrive and grow.
Sorry for the rant. The more I reflect on my experience (and the experience of other local mothers who did not want to/had trouble with BFing) at my "baby friendly" hospital the more sad/frustrated I get for the mothers to come.
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@photojane: In the UK if there is a medical reason you cannot breastfeed your baby you are given the appropriate formula on prescription, so its free. I had a medical reason why I should have not breastfed and was immediately given a prescription for free formula. In the end I never used any formula but the idea is that if a doctor judges there is a medical reason you are unable to breastfeed your formula is free. Otherwise the decision to not breastfeed is viewed as a choice and one that you should pay for.
The second point is that all healthcare here is also free. Part of the idea behind this scheme (and others like it) is that its cheaper in the long run to pay people to breastfeed as it will reduce the medical costs associated with increased infant illness due to FF.
@T.H.O.U.: That's true, I had never thought about it that way. Low income families here that are on the equivalent of WIC overwhelmingly FF.
@char54: In the UK all hospitals are "Baby friendly" meaning they are geared up to facilitate the best things for babies, that's breastfeeding. Of course if you want to include Mums in the equation then sometimes formula is the better choice, but if we only include baby's factors (as baby friendly implies) then the hospitals should be making breastfeeding the priority.
Some might argue that it is not the government's responsibility to promote or assist formula feeding. Firstly as its universally accepted as not as good as breast milk for babies health, and then also as it's not their role to promote private companies interests. In the hospital I was in formula as kept under lock and key as far as I recall.
There was a lot of help on hand. If babies were screaming and crying at 4am in the morning then the answer was always to bring them to the breast as thats them helping you establish your supply and that there are rarely any long term problems with a hungry baby that is frequently offered the breast.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/mar/20/breastfeeding-myths-dispelled
In the UK the sad fact is that breastfeeding rates and education are very much linked. Breastfeeding has become a social-economic marker.
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The government there wants to create an incentive to breastfeed. I don't think this is "judging" mothers who don't/can't breastfeed. The government gives tax breaks to parents, it's not that they're "judging" people without kids, it's that they want people to have them if they can/want. Basically they are offering another reason to do what they want you to do.
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@pui: +1.
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It's just a pilot, so it might not work. I think the money could be used to provide resources and support but I do think it's good that people are at least trying to address the issue.
I think that there are a ton of other more horrible issues that make me sad about the direction our society is headed, but this isn't one of them. They are trying. There are many ways that the low rates of breastfeeding could be addressed, who knows, maybe there will be a pilot with lactation specialists in hospitals and for home visits. Money is sometimes a big incentive.
If that quote in the article is right, it's pretty amazing that just 1% of women in the UK breastfeed for at least 6 months. Although I am saying that without knowing the percentage for women in the U.S.
@char54: I'm sorry you had that experience. If your hospital has the official "baby friendly" designation it does mean that the hospital must support breastfeeding and basically exhaust all methods to deal with any breastfeeding issues. The hospital does not accept formula and bottle samples. I think every mother should feel supported in her decisions and you're right the postpartum period is super emotional!
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I formula fed my son and made the decision with my eyes and emotions wide open.
I disagree completely that there is "increased infant illness due to FF." Statements like this are not helpful. Illness in children results from many things, not only how they are fed.
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@mrsjazz: 1-2 % are exclusively BF here at 6 months. Roughly 35% are still breadtfed at 6 months but have either started solids or are mixed feeding.
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@looch: I'm not trying to offend you (or anyone at all) however it's been statistically proven time and time again that FF does increase infant illness. It's medical fact now. Of course when you look at individual cases its easy to say otherwise. I don't think the medical community and the WHO are just making up the benefits to infant health of breastfeeding. I'm glad your happy with your decision, it's absolutely your right to choose how to feed your child.
I know there's a lot of other reasons baby's get ill. Breastfeeding is just one factor in infant health. But it's probably one of the only ones we can control. Hence why governments are keen to promote it.
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@sea_bass: I know your intention isn't to offend, but in reality, I take those studies with a grain of salt. The formulations of infant formula have changed so much over the course of the last 25 years and if they were truly such a terrible alternative, they wouldn't be on the market.
To each her own on any parenting issue. I don't post inflammatory statements about how others feed their children, so I expect the same courtesy.
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@sea_bass: Really, is that true?? I didn't know that. I wonder what constitutes a medical reason. E's tongue tie was well documented and I received medical attention for my double mastitis and the piece of retained placenta which probably resulted in my milk never really coming in. I *couldn't* breastfeed - I had no milk - and yet I was never offered a prescription for formula....
Oh and can I just say, @sea_bass: , "it is not the government's responsibility to promote ...... private companies interests". Hahahahahahaha! You're funny!!!
As far as the incentive goes..... I think it's worth a go! The breastfeeding support I received here in the UK was excellent - lots of help at the hospital and a personal breastfeeding support worker provided by my local Council. There was nothing anybody could have done to make breastfeeding work for me but if it was possible they would have made it happen and it wouldn't have cost me a penny. I think that people are not breastfeeding here because there is still a stigma attached and, like Seabass said, in my experience, it is very much linked to social class (for want of a better term). The middle class mums are wearing their babies in woven wraps and breastfeeding on demand, the chavs all think its "gross". Fact. If a few Poundland vouchers can help them to see past that, then it's all good as far as I'm concerned!!
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@Cherrybee: my son had TT and I had it fixed, transformed feeding. However,. I was given an unlimited script for formula as my son has MSPI. Instead I chose to cut that stuff from my diet but the doctor was unequivocal that I could have formula for free if I didn't want to cut out dairy and soy.
From my understanding scripts aren't given for supply issues. As the doctors tend to think they can be overcome and that moving to formula in those cases is a choice, rather than a medical necessity.
I'm glad you felt you got good support. I remember reading your posts at the time and being very pissed on your behalf that you couldn't get the TT sorted on the NHS. It made such a monumental difference for us.
Now I think you're going to have to translate what "chavs" mean while I put on my woven wrap and breastfeed on demand....
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@sea_bass: Aren't you British?? I thought everyone here used the word chav?
The Oxford Dictionary defines Chav as "an informal British derogatory meaning a young lower-class person who displays brash and loutish behaviour and wears real or imitation designer clothes"
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The whole FF vs BF debate is bullshit. Governments shouldn't be promoting one over the other. Period. Why? Because it's none of their fucking business.
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@Cherrybee: I thought "chav" specifically applied to travellers? Like a racial slur. Hmmm....
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@loveisstrange: No, we have a whole other set of horrible words for them.
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I don't think this will work because it will be too difficult logistically to keep up with. But I can't wrap my head around being offended by the government creating an incentive program to encourage women to do something (if they are physically able to) that is well proven to be best for their babies.
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@Cherrybee: Yes, yes, I know what it means, I was thinking about the rest of Hellobee
@loveisstrange: That's an interesting way of looking at it. I would think that infant health is probably under the government's remit, particularly when healthcare is socialised.
@looch: My apologies if I have offended. The article states long term costs savings as a reason for piloting this idea. They did a similar thing with obese people. Pay them in the short term to loose weight, for longer term savings in the health bill.
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@Cherrybee: @loveisstrange: Maybe you mean pikey?
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@loveisstrange: Yeah, when health care is run by and paid for by the government, it is their business. If they think breastfeeding is better for health, they're going to try and make sure as many people as possible are doing that. It comes with the territory.
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@loveisstrange: YES.
@sea_bass: My opinion stands. I would certainly understand a prescription for LC visits or a breast pump (in the same way that a FF mother received a prescription for formula), but paying someone to choose a certain method of feeding is unfair and ridiculous.
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@photojane: I don't get it, how is it unfair? You probably receive government support or tax breaks for something someone else does not. I used the example of tax breaks for parents. Do you see this as "unfair" to childless and especially childfree people who plan on never having children or infertile people who never can? The government incentivising behaviour they want to see in the population isn't some new thing, nor is it meant as a slight against people who can't collect that benefit.
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@MamaMoose: I'm not offended that the government wants to help women BF - I think that's great. I'm offended that they're handing out cash prizes. If they were giving them tools to help them succeed, that would be wonderful. Free lactation consults, breast pumps, literature, and support groups would be great tools for the government to provide. Giving Sally $200 because she chose BFing, while I am having to PAY that every month because I chose something else really bothers me.
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@pui: As a parent I am providing for another person. We're making the same income, but paying out a lot more each year. The tax break is to help lighten this load. A childless person is only providing for him/herself. If I didn't have a child to care for, I wouldn't need the tax break. I don't see how this is equivalent.
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@looch: Agreed. Im right there with you in regards to some of the statements made in this thread.
@sea_bass: Well, you're talking to someone who thinks the "huge difference" BFing makes is negligible at best. Genetics is really the determining factor, IMO. Anyway... pikey is probably what im thinking, lol
@Cherrybee: Haha, right on then. Im not sure who told me that was true, but I know someone did. Anyway, the shoe still fits. rofl
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@photojane: The government, in the end, gives you that tax break because they want to incentivise people to have babies. Do you think the government would still give a tax break if they were worried about too many babies/overpopulation? Of course not, that would definitely stop because then they would be trying to get people to not have kids. The government is only handing out that money because they want you to do something. In this case the government wants to give an incentive to breastfeed. It's exactly the same thing.
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@pui: I don't think the tax break is the government's method of paying people to have babies. We will agree to disagree.
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@photojane: Like I said, the government wouldn't continue to offer the break if overpopulation was becoming a serious, breathing on their necks sort of problem. But sure, agree to disagree.
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@pui: @photojane: I wonder if overpopulated countries give tax breaks for children?
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@Dandelion: @pui: @photojane: Well China has a fine in place to help enforce their one-child policy, so I doubt they are giving tax breaks to people who have kids!
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@Adira: Isn't that more like a fine if you do have more than the allotted number of kids, rather than a tax break for people who do? In any case I don't know much about the Chinese government except that I wouldn't want to live under it.
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