I'm going to nurse LO on demand today and see how it goes! He's spent the majority of the day at breast and has had good latching and swallowing. He's been falling asleep after 4-7 minutes though so he's been waking up hungry waaay more frequently than when he does when he's just getting bottles of pumped milk.
But I figure if he's getting enough over the course of the day, it shouldn't matter if its 4oz at a time or 2oz at a time 
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
Thats great! Did the LC show you tips and tricks for keeping him awake during feedings?
blogger / nectarine / 2608 posts
You are totally right; as long as he is getting what he needs over the course of the day, it doesn't matter if it comes in large amounts at a time, or smaller (unless he is picky about that sort of thing, but it sounds like he's been pretty happy with what's available). Your story is so inspiring, and I love that you've been willing to share so much about how things are going for you. Keep the updates coming, and I hope today is a big success!
pomelo / 5093 posts
Hooray, congratulations! That is SUCH an amazing feeling - just trusting your body to do what it needs to do to feed your baby. I felt SO proud when I was able to do it.
nectarine / 2127 posts
Thanks! I'm excited! It's crazy that a week ago I didn't even know if he'd latch or not and now we're attempting nursing on demand!
@T.H.O.U.: no, but I posted a thread earlier and got some great advice I've got him stripped to his diaper right now and I have hands and face wipes within reach. This last nursing session he latched and swallowed for 12 minutes and I feel pretty empty, so I didn't try to wake him up and keep him going.
@Mrs. Twine: he's a pretty easy-going baby as long as his belly is full! He's been filling up his diapers at a rapid pace, so I think he's getting enough, I really hope he is! I'm still going to follow the LC'a suggestion of giving him bottles for the 2 night feedings, to give myself (and my nipples!) a break. His latch is really pretty good, I haven't had too much pain. I'm glad my posts haven't gotten annoying! I feel like I've been blowing up the breastfeeding board 
I've gotten so much awesome advice and support, I'm so so grateful!!
grapefruit / 4056 posts
Yay! I am keeping my fingers crossed for some massive weight gain at your next LC appointment!
nectarine / 2127 posts
@Smurfette: he had a bottle at 7:30am with 2oz and then took 80cc at 1:30pm (I offered 3oz but he was full after 80cc). I nursed him every 30min-1 hour between about 9am and 1:30pm. I know he's transferring, I can hear him swallow and feel my breasts soften, but I think our missing puzzle piece is that he's not staying awake long enough. He had one really good nursing session of about 12min, where I really felt emptied and after that session, he slept for an hour. I feel like we're making progress, but we're not quite there yet. For the 6 hour stretch, he would've taken 6-8oz, so him not even wanting 3oz from a bottle makes me feel like we're getting it. He should be waking up soon so I'm going to try to keep him awake during our next nursing session and see how he does.
I kind of wonder if he's also digesting the unfortified breastmilk faster than he digests the fortified (thus wanting to eat more frequently). We fortify with a high calorie formula and I've always heard that formula isn't digested as quickly as breastmilk. It's a small amount of fortifier but I wonder if it has an impact.
GOLD / wonderful coconut / 33402 posts
@septemberlove: have you stripped him down to a diaper? Tickling? Blowing in him? Those would wake up R in the beginning.
nectarine / 2127 posts
@Smurfette: yeah, he's in just his diaper, I've tried blowing on him, I've tried wiping his face and neck with hands and face wipes... I'm hesitant to totally move him and have to redo the pillows and reposition him but moving him always works with bottle feeding, so I'm going to try that. He just nursed for 12 minutes, had great swallowing, and is zonked! I think if I can get him to wake back up for another 5-7 minutes, we'd be golden!
nectarine / 2163 posts
@septemberlove: sticking my finger in LOs ear always helped to wake him up in the early days. or tickling his feet and/or nose
you're doing so well, it might be weird, but i'm super excited for you!!
grapefruit / 4056 posts
@septemberlove: The fortified milk will definitely digest slower than unfortified, also, if he is not emptying your breasts he will be getting more fore milk than hind milk, and since fore milk is more water and less proteins/fats than hind milk it will be less satisfying in the long run. When you pump, the bottles get a mix of fore milk and hind milk in them so they are more balanced in that respect.
nectarine / 2127 posts
@Penny Lane: I tried the ear thing, no dice 
it seems like the only thing is picking him up and moving him, but it gets him REALLY mad. And as soon as he's back in position, he only lasts a few minutes before he's zonked back out
@MsMini: that's really helpful to know! I had heard about the foremilk and hindmilk but hadn't thought about it when I was trying to figure out why he didn't seem satisfied.
grapefruit / 4717 posts
@septemberlove: Just chiming in to say that I'm so happy you keep updating us. I'm so exciting that it's working so well for you at this point. You've already gotten all of my suggestions for keeping him awake.....possible to make the room colder so he's less snuggly while nursing?? That's the only other thing I can think of.
nectarine / 2667 posts
Man, it sounds like it was a really successful day! Everyone mentioned the get baby awake tricks I know - keeping them up is really hard! I think I ended up just giving up on waking him up after a few weeks :). I hope the night goes well, too. You're doing such a great job - I love hearing about your journey!
nectarine / 2127 posts
I thought it was a successful day... Until about 6:30pm. I'd nursed him for about an hour, trying to get him to stay awake. I was fairly certain he'd gotten at least 2oz, maybe a little more, based on how empty I felt. I offered a bottle of 2oz, which he took... And he's eaten 6 more ounces since then for a total of 8oz in 4 hours and he's still acting hungry. He did this yesterday evening too, except it was 6oz total over 3 hours and then he slept for a 6 hour stretch, woke up for 3oz and then slept another 4.5 hours.
nectarine / 2667 posts
@septemberlove: aww, girl it was still a successful day! It was your first go at on demand nursing and you didn't hit a bump until the evening - that's great! Focus on your triumphs and you'll build on them day by day until, one day, you'll think "I barely remember what it was like when we weren't nursing together." You'll get there
clementine / 916 posts
@septemberlove: It was still a successful day! My daughter drinks 1/3 of her daily milk during her last feeding of the night. It doesn't matter if she just had a bottle 30 min. earlier. I just think of it as her hibernating since she sleeps through the night.
pomegranate / 3706 posts
I admit I haven't read the previous posts, or been following, but have you had your LO checked for tongue tie, and more importantly posterior tongue tie? Sometimes babies with tongue tie fall asleep quickly at the breast because it's so exhausting to try and overwork the tongue and jaw to nurse. Frequent nursing sessions are another common issue with ties. It causes all kinds of other nursing issues, too. My LO had a posterior tongue tie and upper lip tie that 2 LCs and 3 pediatricians missed, one even telling me she flat out didn't have a tongue tie when I had him look for one. We found a specialist and had her properly diagnosed and had the ties revised. Once we got her PTT and ULT corrected, our entire nursing experience changed drastically for the better. xoxo.
nectarine / 2127 posts
@erinpye: he has a tight frenulum but both LCs that we worked with didn't think it'd be an issue. Maybe we should still have it evaluated.
pomegranate / 3706 posts
@septemberlove: We were told the same, but it was and issue, and revising both her lip and tongue made a HUGE difference! I have some resources of people to see in various areas around the U.S. if you're interested.
pomegranate / 3706 posts
@septemberlove: It can be. We had our daughter's done by a laser dentist because she was 6 months old and we didn't want to put her under anesthesia. You don't have to anesthetize newborns for clipping because they'll usually sleep through it, so an ENT can do it, but for older kids, laser sometimes is a better option and was for us.
nectarine / 2127 posts
@erinpye: I'm going to set up an appt to have it evaluated. It can't hurt to have it evaluated since we know its tight.
pomegranate / 3706 posts
@septemberlove: oh good. I hope you get some answers, and I hope nursing continues to improve for you! It's rough, but you are not alone, mama! xoxo
nectarine / 2127 posts
@erinpye: thanks! And thanks for sharing your experience. It really hasn't occurred to me since the 2 LCs said it shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully we can get it checked out and keep making progress.
pomegranate / 3706 posts
@septemberlove: unfortunately a lot of doctors, ENTs and LCs don't have correct and updated information when it comes to tongue and lip ties. I really recommend you check out Dr. Kotlow's website kiddsteeth.com and read some of his articles all about ties and their affects on oral and palette development, speech, oral aversion, breast feeding, etc. He's one of the leading authorities on the issue right now. And it's good to be armed with knowledge when it comes to this particular type of situation. I literally had to fight my pediatrician, husband and family about it until I found a specialist who knew what she was looking for.
grapefruit / 4291 posts
@septemberlove: Even if you don't get a diagnosis of lip or tongue tie you could maybe try some stretching exercises to help stretch the frenulum?' Here's a couple of websites with some info:
I've also heard good things about this Facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/tonguetiebabies/?fref=ts
And I also wanted to say that you and your LO are making some really awesome progress so just keep plugging away at it and I'm sure you'll have it down in no time at all!
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@septemberlove: Just wanted to stop in and say that it sounds like a VERY successful day. If he was happy nursing all day, it was a success. Just because he took milk at the end of the day doesn't mean he wasn't getting anything. There is a big issue with overfeeding with a bottle (not that you are worried about overfeeding in your situation), but it does not mean that he was starving. Plus as others have said, that evening time period is when they seem to be the hungriest as they gear up for bed. Totally normal. Keep up the great work!
nectarine / 2127 posts
@T.H.O.U.: thanks. It just hurt to see lo act like he'd never eaten in his life. I know DH isn't on board with me breast feeding (he wanted me to keep EPing and bottle feeding) and he was watching lo devour the bottles and he made a comment about me starving him. I just want what's best for lo. He seemed so content nursing and he seemed like he'd transferred and he seemed satisfied. I just don't know.
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@septemberlove: You know. You are momma. You know that he drank. You know he was happy and therefore not starving.
Keep up the good work. Today is another day and he will get stronger and better. You have to give him the opportunity to show you he can do this.
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