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@Rainbow Sprinkles: This makes me so bitter and hate living in NYC! Rawwr!
Middle class in NYC has a big range: from 50k to 200k. In 2009, the average income of married filers in NYC was $140k. Crazy, we need to leave this place!
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@MrsTiz: You inspired me to actually looks ours up!
Median income for family of 4 in our county is $53,500
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@Mrs. Lantern: you can find cheaper outside of the city, but DH works 12-14 hours a day and having a long commute would make him (and therefore me) so miserable.
@woodentulip: we've been house-hunting for over a year in Leaside, Summerhill, Deerpark area. It's so frustrating!
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I live in southern Oklahoma where a lot of people live in poverty and have to get assistance from the government which is totally fine if you have to but most of them are redneck trashy people who don't want to work.. So I would say 30-60k is middle class in my area. It's hard to even find a Job around here that will pay decent.
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I think technically the median family income in the US is only 50k! When I was in college I got seriously lectured because I considered my family to be "middle class". We were comfortable but I didn't think of us as "rich". My dad made well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars a year so apparently I was informed we were nowhere near middle class. I just happen to have gone to private school most of my life where I was pretty much the poor kid!
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@Mrs. Lantern: we've been reading that the Vancouver market has dropped, have you found that at all? Prices here haven't moved down at all.
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@mrsaudi: Thats how it is here, it's impossible to get a well paying job. There are jobs everywhere, if you want to make $7.50 per hour, but a salary job, or a $10-11 job are far and few between.
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The cost of living varies (and therefore salaries) so much, I agree that just taking money into account, the net after expenses would be more reasonable to compare.
That being said, I think the idea about defining middle class in terms of education and social graces is more common.
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@oliviaoblivia: Holy cow! Wow!!!
Here, I would say 50-80k is middle class?
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Median income for a family in my county is $43,000
Median home cost is $113,000 -
@oliviaoblivia: Only in the bubble neighbourhoods that prices have dropped! The rest of Vancouver stayed pretty flat. A long commute would totally be miserable! It's such a tough trade off
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Ok now I looked up income for where we live because I was curious. This is household income.
Ontario: $71,540
Our town: $101,300I'd guess making around these would be middle class?
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I feel like the middle class is ever changing and at this point shrinking!
If you aren't eligible for any assistance, the price of gas ( possibly x2), car insurance (possibly x2), water, electric/heating/cooling, any personal loans ( car, etc), food, taxes, student loans ( x2 assuming both have education). cable/internet, phones, childcare and healthcare plus your rent or mortgage will leave you living paycheck to paycheck even while making a typical "middle class" wage.
I know two types of people for the most part my age..struggling or wealthy. Perhaps once I get older I will know more people who are just comfortable!
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Ok, I just looked up my county.
average family income is 57k
average house worth is 270k
only 25% have a bachelor's degree or higher. -
middle class: 75-110k
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I think our area is similar to @oliviaoblivia: though not quite as much.
I'd say 80k-120k is middle class around here.
120k-250k is upper middle class
250+ is rich, but even then, not like what you would "think" rich looks like!We know a few people that make $200K, $300K combined income and still have debt, astronomical mortgages & HOAs, and/or no savings! I know a lot of it has to do with personal saving/budgeting habits, but during the housing bubble, a regular SFH was over $1M easily! Bubble popped but people still owe what they owe.
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@MrsTiz: yep exactly! Where do you live at? Forgive me If you already mentioned!
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For our town:
Median family income: 110k
Median home price: 250kCompared to what others have said I feel really good about where we live - housing is super affordable compared to income
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Crazy T.O. Real estate example... We rent right now, a two bedroom one bath and our rent is $1850 a month. The condo building next door (arguably the same location) with the same square footage and amenities, has a two bedroom one bath unit, practically identical to ours listed for $789,000 + $1489/ month in maintenance.
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Last I saw, median income in my town is around $90k?
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@mrsaudi: North Carolina!
@JennyPenny: Where are you at?!
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@oliviaoblivia: Oh I hear you! We just bought--in New Toronto, just west of Mimico. Had very little to choose from on the west side of the city--would have had lots more to choose from in East York, that's for sure!
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@oliviaoblivia: wow our mortgage is only $50 more than your rent and we have a high mortgage for our area! TO is nuts!
but, I also don't think canada has experienced the housing crisis like us. My aunt lives in BC and her house is very similar to ours and is worth 400k more than ours! -
Wow!!! such an interesting thread. I know @Rainbow Sprinkles and I were discussing this earlier. I feel as though we are "poor" compared to *most* of hellobee too. However in our area, we make just under the average median income. There are a lot of one-income families in my town; most families here are SAHMs and many have husbands who work blue collar jobs. My dad works blue collar and had six kids - but I never felt we "suffered".
Anyway - my guess would be that middle class is 30-60k here, upper is 70-100k and rich is 100k+.
Most average size homes (2000 sq ft, 3-4 beds) are 150-200k. But we couldn't afford that.
According to the census bureau, median income in MN is 55k, we do make a little less than that. We have our needs met but I wouldn't say we're "comfortable" either.
Also, my husband works a "white collar job" (professor), and has a masters degree. I know in ten years he will probably be making about 20k more than he makes now just because his career just started 2.5 years ago. He hasn't been working "for real" for very long. That is another thing that contributes to Hellobee being a "skewed sample" - many parents here are older and established in careers. We are not. I am really young, only have an AA degree and am a SAHM.
But like I said, in ten years - I might have a career, DH will have a well-established career and we could easily be make double what we make now. And I would still be the same age as most of the other moms here... -
I live in Boston. Our 2 bedroom condo cost over 400K and you can't get a house or decent condo for any less than that in the surrounding suburbs...usually more like 500K for a house, and that's a fixer upper.
I'd say 100Kish is middle class around Boston, unfortunately.
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@Coco Bee: Do you mind sharing your age? I'm young too (much younger than most of the hellobee crowd), and I didn't realize you were also.
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@Arden: I'm 23. I was 20 when I got married, 21 when I got pg and 22 when I had DS.
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@MamaMoose: I had the opposite experience in college: I found out my family was in the "low income" bracket for my entire childhood, but I had no idea we were "poor"! It was a huge surprise to me to learn that my family was not "middle class," like I had always thought.
Hmmm, according to my county website, the median household income is almost $120k/year. The median house value is $535k.
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@Coco Bee: It's all relative to the cost of living in your area! No apples to apples when comparing salaries because real estate and other costs (child care....) vary SO much by area!
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@Dapple Grey: I fully agree with you about expenses leaving us middle classer's paycheck to paycheck.
Our car insurance, health insurance gas,utilities, car loan, student loans, phone, cable & internet take most of our paycheck.Rent here in South Florida is ridiculous. We pay $1600 for a small-ish 2 bedroom apartment in a decent area. I hope we move somewhere with a lower cost of living soon!
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@Coco Bee: Heh. I'm 21. I was 20 when I got married, 21 when I got pregnant, and will be 22 when I have DD.
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This is super fascinating. And it's interesting how our own small world has such an impact on what we consider ourselves. Originally, I was thinking that our middle class was $80K-$100K, and I felt that growing up I was lower-middle, and I think my parents brought in around $60K. Now, having read some of your responses, I think I might be way off base.
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@Arden: same story pretty much
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Median income in my county is $77k. Median home value is $420k. Based on that I guess we're upper middle class? Our home value is less but our income is more.
It's really so crazy to me how different the median is around the country.
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@winniebee: I agree. I know couples who make $200K combined and are struggling (and don't live in huge houses.. 2BR apartments). Add a 400K apartment + 2 student loan debts + 2 car payments and it doesn't leave much. Add $2K/month daycare in the mix and it's crippling.
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@mrbee: I was thinking the same thing about Orange County.
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@JoJoGirl: ditto to all that you said.
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@Arden: You aren't the youngest here!
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@Coco Bee: "30-60k here, upper is 70-100k and rich is 100k+." WI would consider that my definition too.
These are the numbers from where I'm from., Median Household Income $57,561, Per Capita Income $33,344
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@Coco Bee: @Arden: me too me too!
20 when I got married, 21 when I had DD, 22 now.
We are also on the low side of middle class. We have a decent house, decent cars and are paying things off.. we just don't have extra.
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