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@Arden: I'm 24. I was 21 when we got engaged, 22 when we got married and 24 when I had C.
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In 2010, the median income where I live was about $114K.
I was guessing "middle" in our area (per family) is anywhere from $50K - $175K.
It's funny, when @Coco Bee said average homes were 2000 sq. ft. with 3-4 bedrooms, those are probably "big" homes in So Cal where a house that size where I live would probably cost around $800K.
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@lovelife: Exactly.
Even though we're young, I don't feel like that affects our financial status. We don't make much money at all, but we have no debt whatsoever, and we chose a career knowing full well what the financial implications were. We'll be in the same place financially in ten years that we are now, and I'm fine with that. Our careers make us happy and are very fulfilling, so the financial aspect is not so important. -
@MrsTiz: I took your approach and looked up the stats for median income in my area
City: $40,520
State: $53,425The statistics on the site I visited also had the % of population in differing income ranges. The greatest % of the population in our area earned between $50-75k - numbers that make perfect sense to me and about what I would have said was 'middle class' had I not looked up statistics.
We're doing better than average but not by much, and still well within the 'middle class' (if you consider middle class as the $50-75k). -
150K is comfortable, but not rich, IMO. I consider "rich" to be that you don't really have to budget and think about your money. And we certainly do, even though many people on HB would define us as "rich" based on their numbers. I just feel like we aren't!
I'd say we are upper middle class because we don't have loans, we have a nice home, we own our cars, we can pay for our necessities, and aren't stressing out over the cost of a baby, but it doesn't mean we have thousands to put into savings, either :). I wish, ha! We also are two young professionals with good incomes, but the educational background is there, too. I live in the midwest and city I live in's average income is about 85K/year.
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This is such an interesting thread! I think middle class in our area is likely 50 - 80K per family per year. It's hard to say though. The middle class is definitely changing..
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@Mrs. Lantern: same here. I would say we are middle class but we are absolutely no where NEAR upper middle class. That was how I grew up - upper middle. So, it's sad to me.
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@Rainbow Sprinkles: wow! Only 25% have a bachelors degree?! That's pretty low!
ETA: we have a ton of industrial jobs in our area. DH is a certified boiler engineer but 4 years of "school" through his work got him there but it's not a bachelors degree. He still can get a job elsewhere though...if not, he would consider going back to school.
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@Rainbow Sprinkles: those numbers are so messed up. This is part of why we are struggling right now.
average family income is 57k
average house worth is 270kHow does a family making $57k buy a house for $270k???
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@Rainbow Sprinkles: I looked up our education levels, 24.2% have a bachelors!
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@HeatherlovesKenny: Only 20% have bachelors here...
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Hmm...this is an interesting discussion. I totally agree with @LondonMama that class is more than just income and that I would add both education (as a means upward mobility) as well as ASSETS in the determination of class.
You can make very little money, but if you inherit wealth and/or own assets that appreciate or hold value that is a real marker of your total wealth. I've seen this happen with my DH's family, and I am fascinated by it. His parents didn't make a lot money, but they were able to parlay the property and other assets passed down to them. I grew up working class and because of the education I've received and career choices I've made, I believe I would be considered upper middle class now.
Also is middle class about buying power? As I have noticed on HB and other sites (and this post!), your money can go farther in some parts of the country than others.
@Rainbow Sprinkles: I have to disagree with you in thinking that this site is overwhelming made up of people from NYC. As someone who lives here, I find the HB to be younger, more suburban and not from the Northeast. That's totally cool with me of course (!!!), but I feel like I can count on one hand many of the posters who live in NYC and regularly comment on the boards. At times I feel very much like an anomaly here (A Black urban woman having my first child at 35), so from my perspective I feel the opposite you do. The Northeast especially places like NYC and Boston tend to offer jobs with higher wages to counter the high cost of living in these areas. If the opposite were the case, fewer people would want to live here, I think.
Just my $0.02.
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Okay, this has me interested so I just checked for my area (DC suburb in Maryland)
(Keep in mind we also have high taxes)
Median household income is $88,444 in 2010. This is the 14th highest median household income in the United States.
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@BKCaribBaby: Really? I also thought there were a large amount of New Yorkers on here. I should make a poll to find out the demographic...
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@winniebee: I'm in Boston too, and I'd agree with you that around 100K would be middle. We rent in a great neighborhood, but we wouldn't buy here- a 2 bed right around here would easily be 800K and up. Moving out to the suburbs, I think a decent house would be 500 and up.
I do feel OK with it though-- I lived in NYC before this where it was even more expensive so by comparison, any where else will seem more reasonable. We just have expensive taste in cities. -
Where are you all getting your average income and home prices from? My Googling skills are failing me...
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The average household income is just under $99k in our city, with the median being $86k. We have one the higher household median incomes in Canada. Middle class has a huge range, probably anywhere from $40k (lower) to $150k (upper).
@oliviaoblivia: Leaside, Summerhill are such nice neighbourhoods. There are such crap houses in Toronto selling for ridiculous prices!!
@mediagirl: they probably put 5% down on the house.
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@Arden: Yup. Most people here talk about living in houses, driving in cars, etc. Definitely not life in NYC. Also many of the age posts skew young. Most of my friends here had/have first kids in their 30's whereas I find this site is more mid-late 20's. There are definitely people having kids in their 20's in NYC, but not as many in other parts of the country. I'd be a granny Mom in many other places. In Brooklyn, I'm not out the ordinary. I'd be interested in seeing a poll, but HB does not seem NYC dominated to me at all.
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@Foodnerd81: Google "Richmond VA medium income" or wherever you live!
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Wow - I just found the 1989 median income for the town I grew up in - my parents made about $100k per year less than the median! No wonder we were the "poor kids" in our town!
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@Coco Bee: Despite being just under the average median income, wouldn't you still consider yourself middle class? I find a lot of the income amounts considered middle class quite high, and i think those numbers represent middle to upper-middle class.
I'm sure if you met someone from a city with a high standard of living whose combined household income was $50k, they would consider themselves part of the middle-class group.
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@BKCaribBaby: hm. I am a member of a birth month club on here (all of our babies were born around the same time) and out of 18 of us, 14 I believe are from the northeast. But maybe this isn't true for HB as a whole. I agree with @ARDEN, a poll would be interesting.
It is strange how we feel so opposite, because I believe your description fits into what I see as the "average" HBer (upper middle class, had first child in 30s, from the northeast).
But hey, I guess different perspectives are what make web forums awesome! -
I agree that income and class are two completely different things. Well in the UK they certainly are! The semi-detached house next to our maisonette is on the market for £1.8 million ($2.9 million). It is falling apart and has no garden.... Yeah.... Ouch...
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@caffeinated: yeah I'm sure we're middle class. I didn't mean to imply we're not... but it's funny because I think of middle class as "comfortable" and we're not.
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@Shutterbug: Really?? I just found the median family income in 'our' town as $80k? That's on Wiki.
As a note... that's the median income and this school district was just reported to be in the bottom 20% of the state. The district we'd LIKE to live in (but can't afford) has a median family income of $137,493 :-O
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@Foodnerd81: the census bureau
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@JoJoGirl: I didn't grow up in 'our' town (my parents did)... I grew up in one of those fancy suburbs. But how crazy that you have to make $80k+ to have the privilege to be in the bottom 20%? <eyeroll>
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@Shutterbug: OH!!! S... S.....S.... where's my map... I only know the fancy N town and B town. Hmm. Hahah.
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@JoJoGirl: LOL!
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@MrsTiz: Der. I should have figured that one out sooner. I was leaving the state out.
My county median family income is $44,361, but my city median family income is $58,600. -
@Shutterbug: With a "D" in the middle? Hey I'm not from here
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@JoJoGirl: you got it!
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I'm surprised when people say $150k makes you rich! Where we are, the poverty level is considered $54k. I would say middle class is around $150k.
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Found some numbers for my city:
median household income: $42k
Home price: $304k (includes SFH and condos)welcome to New England, where all the homes are overpriced!
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Average median where I live is $85k, so I guess the people I associate with, made my perception off a little
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Apparently the median household income where I live (data is from 2006) is just under $70k. Based on that, I guess DH and I would fall into "upper middle class" or even "rich" based on a lot of the responses in this thread. I certainly don't feel rich though!
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My brother and SIL make over $300K combined and have no debt, student loans or otherwise. They're also close to paying off their mortgage (within 7 years) and aren't planning on having kids. They are the only people I know that I would consider rich.
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@Shutterbug: I guessed it right away too! Is it near Route 2 ? : )
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@winniebee: hahahah we're so bad..
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I don't think it's easy to put numbers on it because cost of living/salary differs by area so much. I'm in the Midwest, and I'd say a combined annual income of $40k+ is what I'd think of middle class.
I think most message boards like this will always have a higher population of richer, more educated white collar workers because thats who is working at an office and has time/access to pop in online, or can afford a smart phone (or stay at home parents who are financially able to stay at home, and likewise have the time/access).
I studied sociology and remember reading and watching a lot about how basically everyone thinks they are middle class (which is why politicians speak so often to "the middle class"). This is old data, but the first thing Google pulled up that puts it succinctly:
In November 2003, Chris Baker of THE WASHINGTON TIMES reported in "What is middle class?" that the Census Bureau shows the middle 20% of the country earning between $40,000 and $95,000 annually. The Drum Major Institute for Public Policy, a non-partisan and non-profit organization, reports that the middle class has conventionally come to mean families with incomes between $25,000 and $100,000 each year.
But if you ask the American people, you'll get yet another response. According to statistics from the National Opinion Research Center, as reported by Baker, large numbers of American define themselves as "working class" or "middle class," including:
50% of those families who earn between $20,000 and $40,000 annually
38% of those families who earn between $40,000 and $60,000 annually
16.8% of those families who earn over $110,000 annuallyETA: that came from PBS.org http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/middleclassoverview.html
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