Maybe I was never supposed to have allowed my baby to sleep in the Rock N Play at night but when my last baby was born in 2016, we used to strap her into the Rock N Play and she slept amazingly well from a very early age. We didn't have/know about the RNP with my first child and he was a poor sleeper for the first several months of life. Flash forward to now and I am pregnant with #3 and am trying to figure out how I am ever going to sleep again after the baby arrives without the RNP. I've read that the Dock A Tot is also unsafe. I was considering renting a Snoo but wasn't sure if that was really the answer to my prayers. Just wondering if there are any great options for unsupervised sleep (there seem to be plenty of fine options for supervised sleep but that's not really what I'm worried about). Other than the obvious standard bassinet or a crib, are there any options that worked well for you for safe unsupervised sleep?
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I think I would start with the safest option - the bassinet/crib - and then go from there if sleep doesn’t go well. Every baby is different so you never know. My first loved her bassinet and while we had the normal newborn night wakings, etc..., we didn’t need anything else. My second was a premie and had severe reflux so she had to sleep upright for a while. I didn’t love the rock and play but it was the only thing that worked.
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The snoo is not safe sleep either as it has the positioner.
My first slept in the rock and play and I was determined this second baby would sleep flat. We tried to make a halo bassinet work and he hated it. So he bedshares (following the safe 7) and is a better sleeper than our firstI think it's just a matter of what works for that particular baby 🤷
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@MamaBear87: That's my worry about buying something like a bassinet. I don't want to spend my money on something the baby is going to hate and doesn't really do anything that a crib can't. Can I ask why you've heard the Snoo is unsafe? I have seen it advertised as a night sleep option.
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@Shantuck: we bought a used halo. We sold it for the same amount we bought it for so it was totally worth the try.
The positioner part that you strap them into is not safe sleep approved. You can't have anything that makes it so they can't move. Dock a tot was also advertised as safe for sleeping for awhile. I'm sure the snoo is fine just want you to know while weighing options -
We're currently using the Snoo, and this is the first I've heard of it not being safe. The Snoo was the only place we could get our LO to sleep that wasn't on me all night. Because the Snoo keeps them on their backs, I'm not sure I understand why it wouldn't be safe if it's used correctly. Maybe I just need to do some research though. FWIW, we've loved it so far. ETA We rented it, didn't buy it, and our pediatrician knows we're using it and didn't say not to.
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I used a snoo babysitting the other day and it was amazing.
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We did the same as @MamaBear87 - bought a used Halo, used it for six months, and then sold it for $20 more than we paid for it.
For what it's worth, in Canada we never had Rock and Plays - my first was a terrible sleeper, my second was great. I think it depends more on the baby than on the sleeping surface.
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@foodiebee: The snoo is called a sleeper which I believe means it actually hasn't been approved for sleep. If the words bassinet, crib or pack and play aren't used I believe that means it's not been approved.
The official stance is that any sort of positioner is not safe as it could be a position baby can't get into by themselves. I can't find the article that talked about it though. I'm sure it's likely fine but it falls into the same gray area as the rock and play which was a sleeper.No judgement over here. My first slept in a rock and play. I think it's all about weighing risks and benefits. I believe me being super sleep deprived is more dangerous than bed sharing safely. It's all about what you are comfortable with
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My first slept in a RNP for the first couple months too. I'm not sure what direction we're gonna go this time.
probably just a bassinet...as long as she's in our room with us, that makes me feel *slightly* better. The RNP was just so convenient. I used to drag that thing all over the house lol
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I think the RnP danger was very overblown, resulted in a statistically insignificant number of deaths, and was most due to incorrect use (using past when babies can roll over, etc).
For me, it was either use the RnP, or have horrible sleep interruption making it unsafe to drive and/or co-sleeping which I think is even more unsafe than the RnP.
I say that as someone who had crippling anxiety for my pregnancy and postpartum with LO1 - I have like 20+ threads on here from that time demonstrating my anxiety.
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I agree that the Rock n play danger was overblown. I feel so bad for moms with newborns now that they can't use the Rock and play. The overwhelming majority of babies simply do not sleep in a crib or bassinet. And then what happens? They bring the babies into bed with them which is very dangerous with a tiny tiny baby. We used the Cuddle Cove attachment from a pack n play. But basically just suffered for about 10 weeks. No one slept. Between the back to sleep campaign and no good options, families are set up to fail.
Sorry there's not more options.Some babies sleep?
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@DesertDreams88: if I hadn't already gotten rid of mine (before the recall) I'd consider using it again, honestly.
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@JennyLayneAZ: I’m glad someone else said it first
when I put them to bed intentionally, My kids all slept overnight in a Moses basket, because the first two were born overseas and that was the thing there (I don’t think RNPs were available). However, if #3 fell asleep around night time in the RNP, I brought it upstairs with her in it and let her sleep.
I’ve got a RNP in my attic. I’m not sure what I was supposed to have done with it post-recall (my baby no longer used it at that point)...but I think I’d consider using it the way I did previously again.
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I used the RNP for my first, and it honestly makes me a bit sick to think about it. I do not think the concerns are overblown. Over 60 babies died. I guess some might think that’s not a lot compared to the overall population but it’s enough to make me absolutely not want to use it for my second. It’s also enough for the CPSC and AAP to speak out strongly (I assume this post is in response to the recent CPSC statement). And before anyone says it, it was not solely due to misuse. The CPSC study found it was the design of the product at fault. Anyway, both of my kids were shit sleepers in the beginning. My second started out in the halo but we quickly switched to the pack and play, at around seven weeks. I think she actually preferred it. So if I were to do it again, I’d start with the PNP and not bother with the bassinet. Newborn sleep is going to be rough no matter what, so the best thing to do is to switch off with a partner who is on night duty so you can both get sleep at different points.
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@MamaBear87: @Shantuck: My understanding is that the Snoo has meet CPSC requirements for a bassinet and is considered a safe sleep option. I know a lot of people who swear by it.
For my n of 3, we always used a pack n play (with the flat bassinet insert just so I didn't have to reach in) and then crib for all the babies. #1 was a crap sleeper, #2 was a unicorn baby and #3 is in between (8 wks and currently is terrible with naps). Eventually the older ones learned how to sleep on a flat surface and are now great sleepers. All babies have to sleep outside the uterus, and I think it just depends on how to want that process to go. I think the Snoo probably makes it easier, but then you have to wean from that!
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@pachamama: I’m in New Zealand and interestingly enough babies sleep in bassinets or the cot because swings and sleepers like the RnP are incredibly rare!
And FWIW, if you follow the Safe Sleep Seven then the risks to bedsharing are minimal (and the baby is sleeping on a flat surface and on their back).
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@MenagerieMama: it’s my understanding that it’s safe to use as a bassinet, but not to use the things that affix the baby to it in a sleep sack—that’s a sleep positioner, which is not safe. Also, I believe safety testing is only done in a fixed position, not while moving. So you can use it as a regular bassinet, but doesn’t seem worth the extra money in that case.
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@MamaBear87: Fascinating! I didn't realize the wording made such a distinction. I'm still confused about the Snoo though, as they do actually claim bassinet ("SNOO is a responsive baby bassinet..." on their website). I'll have to read more about this!
@pachamama: Yes, my anxiety and sleep deprivation were what drove DH to rent the Snoo. I wasn't physically able to get upstairs into our bed during the first two weeks of my recovery, so I was "sleeping" with baby on the couch, which felt very very unsafe.
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@MrsSCB: this is what I don't understand too. 60 deaths out of the entire population I guess isn't a lot, but at the same time, even if there was just one death and it happened to be my baby, I'd never use it again. So 60 babies to have died, is a lot. And I guess I just don't understand how close someone has to be to one of those babies who died, in order to take things seriously.
At any rate, I think it's just a matter of sticking it out for a few weeks in a bassinet or crib. Tag team on sleep if you can, but it is the safest option
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@foodiebee: this is what pisses me off about the “bedsharing is dangerous” message, the majority of parents will end up bedsharing at some point (even if very briefly) and sleeping on a couch is a thousand times more dangerous than following the Safe Sleep Seven!
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@Kemma: but bedsharing is dangerous... while you might be able to lower the risk, there is no “safe” way to bedshare for a variety of reasons, a major one being that adult beds are too soft for babies and can cause positional asphyxia. A crib or bassinet is always safer, so that’s why it’s going to be the official recommendation.
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@MrsSCB: my point was more that the current message isn’t working if all it does is push parents towards unsafe sleep practices like couch sleeping or placing babies in to swings or car seats or baby “nests”. There’s also research that suggests that bedsharing is no riskier once the risk factors have been accounted for.
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@Kemma: do you have a link to that research? As far as I’ve seen, there’s no way to make bedsharing as safe as sleeping alone in a crib, so I’d be interested to see that. The AAP does say that if you are at risk of falling asleep while nursing accidentally to nurse in a bed instead of a chair, but they definitely don’t recommend bedsharing on purpose. If a mattress is too soft for an infant, I don’t see how you’d mitigate that risk.
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We used a RNP with DD1 and use a halo bassinest with DD2. She definitely didn’t sleep as soundly in it immediately like the RNP but she got used to it and she’s an amazing sleeper now. We’re still using it at 4 months old and I’m hoping it’ll make for an easy transition to the crib eventually.
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@Shantuck: I've reached out to Snoo to ask about the safety of the sleep positioner. It's a term I hadn't heard before (kudos again to HB for keeping me informed! Love that about this community). I'll be happy to let you know what they say if you're still curious about the Snoo.
I should also note that we've never used it for naps. We've tried since the beginning to get our LO to nap in his crib and it's a battle we wage every single day. So far we have failed (I just got done trying and failing for the second time today!). But we keep trying. Honestly it's been the biggest struggle of motherhood for me and I spend the hour after naptime beating myself up about it and feeling like an immense failure. I don't think I'd be a functioning adult without the sleep we get at night with Snoo.
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Guys, it wasn't 60, it was 32 over 7 years. That's like 4-5 per year, out of 4.7 million RnPs. Babies dying are always serious, but I don't go making serious impactful decisions based on those kind of numbers.
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@DesertDreams88: from this week: “In fact, as many as 73 infant deaths caused by inclined sleepers have been publicly reported.” https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/AAPStatementCPSCInclinedSleepers.aspx
ETA: I know that probably won’t change your opinion—we differ in our thoughts on the significance of the number. But since I was the one who said “over 60,” I wanted to clarify where that came from.
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@foodiebee: I would actually love to know as I am still very much considering renting one for the first 8 weeks or so. When I look up sleep positioner, the images that pop up are things similar to the dock a tot where you could easily see how a kid could roll over and get stuck. This seems different in that there isn’t a soft surface to be smothered by.
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@MrsSCB: I could probably find it for you but unfortunately I don’t have it at hand, however both the Lullaby Trust in the UK and Unicef are now supporting safe bedsharing so I’ve attached links for their info.
https://www.lullabytrust.org.uk/safer-sleep-advice/co-sleeping/
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I have the same questions running through my mind as we await baby number 3. I’ve ended up giving in and co-sleeping with both of our girls so far. It’s not the best. I know my quality of sleep suffers. I plan to try the crib/bassinet first with this baby and hope she will just sleep! Ha. Wishful thinking. It’s too bad someone can’t develop a better sleep solution!
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@Kemma: looking at those documents, they’re not really supporting or recommending it so much as saying if you think it might happen, here’s how to reduce your risk. The official recommendation is still to have baby in their own space. FWIW, I’ve bedshared on occasion myself, mostly out of desperation. I did my best to make we were safe. But my overall thought is that the recommendation should always be to try to not do it, because there are so many risk factors.
@Shantuck: a sleep positioner is just something that holds baby in a specific position for sleep. The snoo would be considered one because it attaches the sleep sack to the bassinet. If you put the baby in a regular swaddle in it, that would be fine, but sleep positioners are not considered safe.
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What drives me crazy is that the pediatric organizations give no really relative data. While I don’t doubt that their sleep guidelines are rooted in research and are in fact what’s safest, they don’t give you any information for what might be “next safest” if their #1 recommendation isn’t working. Is bedsharing the next best thing? Would a swing/RnP risk be that much different than a crib? There will unfortunately be deaths no matter what surface so I’m curious as to the percentage in these less ideal places vs. their recommendations. It makes our job so much harder as parents because we can’t weigh risks vs benefits without information like this. 60 deaths is a lot, but how many were there even under perfect conditions (SIDS happens even then too!)? I don’t think I’ve ever met a family who was able to practice the recommendations 100% of the time because, let’s face it, they are not at all what most babies naturally want or need. It would be nice to know what’s the “second or third safest” option and let parents weigh the risks.
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@Shantuck: I heard back from Snoo yesterday. Wtih regard to the sleep sack, they said they "not only comply with the latest established standards and regulations such as ASTM, CPSC, CFR, CA Prop 65 and FCC, but also follow voluntary industry guidelines by organization like JPMA." I followed up and asked if this applies in particular to the sleep sack's safety, and they responded and said that yes, these regulations and guidelines are followed for every part of the snoo. This is also on their website: "We are aware of the misinformation circulating regarding the safety of SNOO. We are pleased to inform you that SNOO is not a sleep positioner. Sleep positioners are made of foam/cushions and pose a serious risk because baby can roll into them and suffocate. SNOO is much safer than any other bed because it prevents accidental rolling. In fact, by improving sleep, SNOO reduces the risk of accidental bed sharing which is associated with 70% of infant sleep deaths. We want to assure you that SNOO meets or exceeds all state and federal safety standards. It is certified for use with babies by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC/ASTM F2194), JPMA (Juvenile Product Manufacturing Association), FCC and IC. And, it has passed repeated evaluations performed by independent, 3rd party safety experts."
I then went to the FDA's website and read about sleep positioners on their website. If you only read the words on the site, I can see how you would interpret the Snoo's sleep sack as a sleep positioner. However, if you watch their video and look at the sleep positioners they themselves cite, I personally would not consider the Snoo to be comparable. The FDA's positioners are all flat mats with pillows or wedges on one or each side, which are clearly possible suffocation risks. The Snoo's sack does not have these pillows. It has two flat wings that lock into the side of the bassinet. Even if these somehow became unattached in the middle of the night, a) the Snoo would immediately turn itself off, and b) the wings are below the baby's shoulders and short enough that they do not reach their faces without the baby twisting downward in just the right way, and even then I have a hard time picturing this.
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We just used a pack n play for our second. And an arms up swaddle. She slept wayyyyyyy better than our first who slept in the RNP for several months. Until the 4 month sleep regression hit.
We did bedshare with both kids but not until the sleep regressions hit, def not when they were super tiny and only temporarily (I’d fall asleep while nursing, with no blankets, etc.)Maybe the concerns about the PNP are overblown but there was no way I was going to use the a recalled product with my baby.
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I used the RNP for both my children before it was recalled
I used it for approx. 8 wks each and then I transitioned them to their crib for night and PNP for naps. I assume if I hadn't had the RNP for those first 8 wks I would have just used the PNP and put it next to my bed (that's what I did with the RNP)
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I wish edits were allowed for a longer period, because I’d add this to a previous comment. But given how much misinformation is out there, even from companies themselves, I wanted to plug a helpful Facebook group— Safe Sleep and Baby Care — Evidence-Based Support. They have tons of links to studies and other info. If you join, you can search Snoo, Rock and Play, inclined sleeper, etc., and get super helpful info. They’re also great for troubleshooting if you’re having trouble getting your baby to sleep in a safe space.
probably just a bassinet...as long as she's in our room with us, that makes me feel *slightly* better. The RNP was just so convenient. I used to drag that thing all over the house lol
We did bedshare with both kids but not until the sleep regressions hit, def not when they were super tiny and only temporarily (I’d fall asleep while nursing, with no blankets, etc.)
I used it for approx. 8 wks each and then I transitioned them to their crib for night and PNP for naps. I assume if I hadn't had the RNP for those first 8 wks I would have just used the PNP and put it next to my bed (that's what I did with the RNP)
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