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I am currently reading the book "Lean in", in preparation for telling my firm I'm pregnant and preparing for maternity leave. And i'm finding it really interesting. While not all of it applies to my life, I find myself wishing I'd read it years ago, since it raises so many of these questions.

In my opinion, some of it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, but much of it is connected to the fact that women simply don't help each other. I think some women in leadership roles are somewhat resentful of the difficult paths they've had to take to get there and the sacrifices they've made, and this makes them less likely to turn around and mentor or even encourage younger women. (Obviously this doesn't apply to all women, but I do think it is more common than it should be).

There's also the problem of small sample sizes. For example, my firm has seen so many women decide to let their careers take a back seat once they had children, which is a perfectly respectable choice, but it means that the few women who do want to "have it all" have an uphill battle in convincing their superiors that they have the commitment and drive to stick around.

I DO think that women can have it all, but not in every job/career path, and having it all requires a lot of things to come together right for you. You need a supportive husband, you need to make enough money to have reliable child care, and you need a job where the expectations are reasonable so you don't spend all your time feeling guilty about what you're missing at home.

@looch: but see herein lies the issue, in my eyes. Men, whether they have a family or not, can "have it all" because no one assumes they would ever be burdened with the tasks of lunches, drop offs, coordinating child care, equal child care responsibilities with a spouse etc... Fortunately it works in my position- that DH can work 40 hours mon-thurs so I can work Fridays and we don't pay for child care. And he has a predictable schedule... But say he didn't. No one would be expecting him to be responsible for family life stuff. It's always put on the mom!

I know most dads like to be involved, try to come home at a reasonable time, help out etc... But the fact is that a family life doesn't hinder them from rising to the top because they have help from their wife. But it's a burden for us wives to expect our husbands to help? So really men need just as much help- the way I see it, does that make sense?

@Mrs. Pen: I didn't specifically mention men or women, just those in senior postions having help from eithr a spouse or paid help.

It goes back to what you define as having it all. What does that mean? It means something different to everyone, so yes, for a man, it can mean rising unencumbered through the ranks of a firm, while his partner takes care of the family needs. For another, it might mean stepping back and staying where he is for a while in order to help his partner either at home or acheive their career goals.

I should further say that I don't even WANT it all. I am quite content in my consultant position, being paid by the hour so I can be more in control of my time. I am happy not to be on a management track right now, because there are only 24 hours in a day, and I choose to spend some of them with my son. When our son is sick, guess who takes him to the doctor? It's not always me, because I am paid hourly, wheras my husband is salaried. No one gives him any trouble for that, in fact, he has 8 days of time he can use for care of family members. It comes down to being informed of your benefits.

@MrsKoala: Interesting perspective on working the same time as school is in session...I see it the other way around, schools should be in session all year, not on this off in the summers farm schedule!

@looch: true. I suppose I assumed you were referring to women

I think have it all is dependent on each persons individual dreams. At this time in my life I need a lot of help from DH come this fall when I'm in school and working. I know I won't be able to do it with a toddler if I'm fully expected to be his primary caregiver. So it's give and take for sure. But I suppose I see that more as a family life balance than a work life balance.

The same goes for DH- he would rather log his 40 hours and come home. He has no desire to put in extra hours to climb his way to the top, he values family as #1. Once I am a FT working mom, I can't really see myself wanting to work much more than that either. Family will always be my priority. So having it all isn't dependent so much on career status as my happy, healthy family and our needs met.

@Mrs. Pen: So then, I think you have made your choices and you do have it all, because you have defined what "it" is for your family.

Somewhere, somehow, the whole thing is that "it" got defined as having a power career, being fabulously put together, having children and being totally involved in all aspects of their lives, managing your house, keeping it spotless while eating bon bons. That's what I take issue with, not each person's choices.

@looch: I think I truly feel that I have it all- I'd like financial stability and a decent house haha. Not there yet but I'm on the right track! I'm still young though with a lot of time.

Oh and I totally agree, the "American dream" is almost as unattainable as nailing jello to the wall. I know one family though that is living that aspect of the dream and they love it.

@babyjmama: true. I agree with this. In the department I work, it just so happens to all be women. My supervisor is a mother of two young children. She never had an issue with me pumping and said to take however much time I need, no need to punch out or log those hours. There was a private room steps from my desk. One coworker just went on maternity leave, everyone has been so excited for her to come back! I think she took 8 weeks. Anyway all that to say- it is so dependent too on who you work for!

When I came back from maternity leave, I got promoted. My boss handled my pumping pretty well. I only had one discussion with him about getting in on time. After that, we worked on making sure I got in on time. I consider myself lucky to have a great boss and some built in flexibility with work from home. Without work from home, laundry would be an even bigger challenge and chores in general.

@brownie: Or that! Either way it seems a little ridiculous for school and work hours not to coincide more for the benefit of everyone!

I think your definition of "all" needs to focus in order to feel like you aren't letting yourself down in one area or another. For me, things like a sparkling house or going to a lot of social events and other activities took a backseat to my main priorities which are:
1) my girls' happiness and well-being
2) the girls' education
3) my career

I am very lucky that my relationship with my partner is pretty easy and self-sustaining.

I read lean in and it didn't resonate with me because I found myself getting stuck on the structural barriers that need to chang on an institutional and national level to optimize womens' performance in the workplace. While I do think I have a lot to learn about not selling myself short, I think I'd be less likely to do so if the system wasn't rigged to sell me short!

A wise person (@Mr. Bee:) told me when I was offered a big promotion that no guy would ever turn down the offer as I wa thinking of doing at the time. They'd go for it and sort it out as they went. I took that advice to heart and am growing into my new position each day

I've had that "guilty" feeling about money too. I'm a contract employee that my company wants to hire on as a full employee. I recently got asked what my salary expectations are and I gave the range I was hoping for. My boss was kind of surprised at how high it was, and for a minute I felt so guilty I wanted to say the lower end of the range was ok. Why did I feel that way? I have no idea! This is not money coming out of anyone's personal pockets. Afterwards I was glad I didn't budge, but in the moment it was very mentally uncomfortable. But going from contract to full employee means a huge reduction in wages because they heavily weigh in benefits, which I don't need or care about.

As for having it all, as other posters have said, it depends on your definition of "it". I read that article a while ago, and from that woman's definition - rising to the absolute top of your field + being a good parent, then no, I don't think you can have it all. I don't think *anyone* can, male or female. Having to travel constantly or work late nights means your family suffers. It's just more socially acceptable for men to do it than women.

But to me, I have it pretty good. I have a 40 hour a week job, I get paid well, and I'm about to have a little boy. Will I be CEO or even a director one day? Probably not. But I'm still successful and will have a family.

@Pirouette: I agree with a lot of this, especially the part about all the factors needing to come together (great boss, affordable childcare, supportive husband, flexible work environment). Now I need to go get me a copy of "Lean In" - that book sounds good - thanks for the rec!

I have a lot of things working in my favor so that I can "have it all" (at least to me). I'm thankful that even though I have an older, female boss, she has been very supportive of me through and through, both during my pregnancy and after. There are good women bosses out there that want you to have what they have! I was given a promotion and pay raise two days before I left for maternity leave, am allowed to pump as long as I need at work, and have a lot of flexibility in my schedule as long as I get my job done well. I feel so empowered in my career, and wish more leaders in the workplace would give their employees room to thrive if they prove themselves to be reliable, hard workers.

The self-fulfilling prophecy for women is true too though because I know that since returning to work, I have not been as engaged or driven as I would've been prior to becoming a mom. Maybe in a few years when things settle down and the kids are older, I can be more present at my job, but right now - in between the pump sessions, rushing home to nurse, juggling two kids, and sleep deprivation, it is hard to give it my all.

I am happy in my current position and have no ambitions to take on a higher level role because I know I would not be able to have the type of work/life balance I'm able to enjoy now if I were to keep going. I do feel like I have it all because I'm able to provide comfortably for my family while being available for my children and spouse, but I also feel like I'm actively choosing not to reach my full potential career-wise, and in a sense that holds me back. Maybe that's what holds a lot of women back.

@looch: Didn't read through the whole thread, but completely agree with your original comment.

Eta: My definition of having it all is being content and having a good work/life balance... so I agree with what @Looch said here >> "I should further say that I don't even WANT it all. I am quite content in my consultant position, being paid by the hour so I can be more in control of my time. I am happy not to be on a management track right now, because there are only 24 hours in a day, and I choose to spend some of them with my son."

@Maysprout: I saw discrimination as you did. Ultimately it changed my career plans sort of. I always wanted to teach, I didn't always want to do it full time.

Women still get paid less then men for the same type of work (yes women predominately go into teaching and other low paying jobs and men go into higher paying jobs. I'm not counting those) Companies worry they will lose out when the woman gets pregnant. Afterwards they are mommy tracked etc.

There are MORE discrimination reports now than ever in the past. Why is this? Is it because women are doing more things or because others aren't adapting?

Men can't have it all. They can have a great career and excel at that. But they can't also be a wonderfully fantastic dad going on field trips in the middle of the day. It is just easier for them to be successful in one arena.

@MrsCB: I respectfully disagree that I can't be at the top o my career performance and parenting. Sure, I have a nanny, but I think my girls are utterly thriving and my career has skyrocketed in the last three years since having kids. For me, I believe that my girls have made me more efficient and driven at work and work has made me more present with the girls when I'm with them. The synergy has been excellent. The only time I get bogged down is when I indulge in mommy guilt, which I've made it a practice to abolish from my life

@Maysprout: Yeah, I actually left a federal govie job for college teaching. So far it hasn't been too much as far as issues BUT, I did have some issues when I lost child care. I wasn't sure I would be able to teach the hours I had and they would NOT budge on the hours. Ultimately, it isn't an issue because we got child care resolved but really they are supposed to be more flexible.

@math.nerd: seriously! I have never been more efficient and I've built in lots of layers of backup on both ends so if something comes up, I've got both work and home covered. No more last minute deadlines for me! I've got to build in a cushion just in case.

It is going to be interesting to see how all of this will work out once I start my "real" job in September. At the beginning of my career with an infant...there are a lot of ways I can help/hurt myself on both fronts. Plus, there is no precedent in my situation. It will be interesting, to say the least. We'll have to see how supportive the workplace really is...

ETA: I'm going to read through the conversation more carefully once I get home...