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@nana87: sure, it can differ with different restaurants, and that's true everywhere. Someplace like Alinea, or Per Se, Eleven Madison Park, Inn at Little Washington, etc. are just not kid-friendly. I don't think anyone is saying to ban kids at all restaurants, but I wouldn't have a problem with a ban at restaurants on par with Alinea.
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I guess it's sad that in order to deal with this type of scenario there needs to be an all out "ban", but it's clear that there is a certain caliber of restaurant that children just don't belong under any circumstance. Period. A large part of the country doesn't even have restaurants that fit into this category, but the few times a year that my husband and I enjoy a meal costing over $300 I would be incredibly disappointed to have a crying child taking away from the experience. The couple should have been told that they must reschedule...I am sure filling the table wouldn't have been an issue.
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@MrsSCB: I guess I was more speaking speaking to some of the responses on this thread--there are plenty of people on here saying they wouldn't take their kids out anywhere--than to the pros/cons of a ban on either all restaurants or specific places on par with Alinea. From the looks of it though, I think you and I mostly agree
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@nana87: Oh yeah, I definitely don't think kids should NEVER go to restaurants. My family ate out for dinner a lot growing up, just not at the high-end places that people are really saving up for. When my parents went to Inn at Little Washington, they definitely left us at home, haha.
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DH and I have always treated ourselves to Michelin star restaurants before LO. Meals usually take 3 to 4 hours (tasting menus), most kids do not have that kind of attention span. However, when I was in London at a 2 Michelin restaurant, there was a young child there. Her parents had a tasting menu and she shared some of her mother's plate. She was probably 5 years old, I was so impressed with how well behaved she was. I think it really depends on the child, after LO, we tend to eat at most casual places, but we have also taken him to really nice upscale restaurants without any issues. I personally have no problems taking him with me everywhere we go because I want to expose him to fine dining. However, if we were going somewhere with a tasting menu, I'll probably leave LO with my parents and really just enjoy the meal and time with my DH. It would be nice to just eat with DH and just enjoy his company without having to worry about entertaining LO.
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If establishments like Alinea feel the need to enforce a ban, I think it would speak less to the restaurant's intolerance, and more to the lack of etiquette some parents may possess.
I work with children, and have a child of my own, and can totally lend some understanding and sympathy to parents with children who are crying or throwing a tantrum, in public. But there are certain environments that are completely inappropriate for young children. It's less "get this tiny human out of my sophisticated stratosphere", and more, "have some class, and let the people around you enjoy their evening."
I'm all for including your children in more adult-oriented events, but you need to make good judgement calls. Know your child, predict their behaviors, and remove them from the environment if they're being disruptive. End of story.
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@yellowbird: I think it's an interesting point to say we should be able to take our kids wherever we want. I view it opposite- their restaurant, their rules. Just like my house, my rules.
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@sunny: I think airplanes are TOTALLY different. If I had a baby crying on a plane near me, 1) I'm not on the plane to enjoy myself, even if I'm first class. I'm flying somewhere - either for work, or for a family obligation, or maybe for fun. The baby's family also is traveling for similar reasons and maybe could not drive to their destination. And it's not like they can step outside. So I try to forget about it and just count down til landing. A restaurant is an optional experience. You can hire a sitter or just choose not to go, and if you do choose to bring a baby, when they fuss/cry/make noise, you can step outside with them. Plus the restaurant is more about the experience than flying is, too.
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@kjpugs: I disagree a bit that the journey isn't to be enjoyed as well. I flew business class to Europe and it was incredible. The service and meals were great and while the point of my trip wasn't the flight itself, it was an important part of our trip.
I'm not saying that babies shouldn't be allowed in biz/first class. I took my 7 month old with me in biz. I just wanted to offer a different point of view.
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@sunny: I see your point on the enjoyment. I would be fine with a baby-free area of first class for sure! As long as first class passengers could have a baby-approved area too. Although it seems to me that it's hard to have a baby-free area of a plane unless it's abig one!
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@kjpugs: there are some planes with upstairs and downstairs areas. I would totally support a baby friendly and baby free area! Makes it less stressful for parents too!
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@sunny: exactly! And oh how I would love to fly that big of a plane. The only flights we ever do are 2- 2 1/2 hours... wompppp. I want a multi-level plane!!!!!!!!!
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We plan on taking our LO to restaurants in SF like Town Hall, Foreign Cinema, etc. but as soon as baby makes a peep we'll feed and/or take a break outside. However, I would never take a LO to a high-end multi-course restaurant like French Laundry, Meadowood, Quince, or Alinea. Those are in a different category to me and part of the dining experience is the ambiance (which to me does not include a screaming baby). That being said, we were at Quince one time and there was a very well behaved set of siblings, about 3 and 5, who were perfectly fine.
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@sunny: @kjpugs: my opinion on babies on airplanes is that if they have a ticketed seat, they have just as much right to be there as anyone else on that plane. I personally have flown with a lap infant and you know what, I am more nervous on those flights, because it's always tight and I am worried about encroaching on someone else's space.
We've had one instance where our son acted up in 3 years, and my retort to the flight attendant was that he was flying on a full fare, with a seat, so he had every right to be there. Shut her right up.
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@looch: completely agree. On a plane everyone's "goal" is to get from point A to B. Adults AND babies. But in a restaurant, the babies aren't there to enjoy the food or ambiance! Similar yet different situations.
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@kjpugs: agreed! I mean, if I could get there another way, I would, but the plane is often our only choice! It's not my son's fault that his grandparents live on different continents, you know?
A restaurant meal is a choice, no matter where you live (maybe Singapore is the exception).
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@looch: what did they say to you?? I have had dd cry on planes and the flight attendants and most passengers have been really nice about it. They know I am trying to keep dd occupied, give her naps, and basically have her be calm and quiet. I can see the difference between restaurants and planes/trains/etc, definitely. My family lives in a place we CAN'T drive to!
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@googly-eyes: it was time to take off and my son was upset about something, I don't recall what exactly, but he was just screaming. My husband was trying to talk to him in a calm voice, which usually calms him down right away, but it was making the situation worse. The flight attendant came over and snapped at me, that he had to be buckled in right then or the plane wouldn't be able to take off, maybe I should give him a stuffed animal to "shut him up."
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I also can't imagine taking my kid to somewhere like Alinea -- mainly because the length of the meal! It wouldn't be entertaining for him, and thus it wouldn't be enjoyable for us (and, potentially, the people around us). That said, we've taken him to some nice places a couple of times at off-peak hours, and we are always prepared for one of us to step out if need be.
A potentially relevant anecdote: my husband and I ate at Per Se when I was pregnant, and we made a joke about this being the "last meal" at such a place for a long time. The waiter overheard -- and let us know that they can do (and have done) menus for children!
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@plantains: my thoughts:
"Kids need to learn how to behave in restaurants and understand that screaming your head off is not acceptable in any restaurant. Or in IKEA. Or in the supermarket. Or at the mall. "I so strongly believe that children should be taught to and be expected to behave well in any situation outside the home. I don't care if it's a 5-star restaurant or anywhere else.
Many times I have had to just leave Target because my kid was acting like a little monster. I don't leave just out of consideration for others but also to teach my child a lesson and also because his behavior stresses me out and I deserve to shop & eat peacefully.
The only 2 places I let my kid scream like a monkey is the park and in our home -
I think there is a difference between a nice restaurant, and a restaurant like Alinea, which for many is a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I like to go out to eat & we take LO to nice restaurants, but I could never imagine taking her to a place like Alinea. We are going to one of the best restaurants in Nashville in a couple weeks and there's no way on God's green earth I would bring the baby! It's just common sense. It seems a little silly to have a "ban," but if a private restaurant owner wants to make his restaurant child-free, he/she definitely is well within their right!
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I wouldn't ever spend $500 at a restaurant but can understand that some may feel like that price warrants a kid free meal.
A restaurant just opened by me that had a new concept that I really like. The place is 3 floors: basement level is for families and very kid friendly (they show cartoons, have toys, etc), middle section is for families but geared more to older kids, top floor is for adults only. They have only been open a couple of weeks but everyone I know who has gone there (including my family) has really liked the concept.
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@purrpletulips: One of our favorite breweries has a family room.
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@looch: so inappropriate, ugh. "Shut him up" would have been it. I would have filed a complaint.
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@looch: they told you to shut your kid up? WTF?!
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@CupQuakeWalk: totally agree with everything you said.
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@plantains: @googly-eyes: you know, I thought about it, but those things go nowhere. I was just too emotionally exhausted by the whole trip and wanted to put it out of my memory!
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I usually cringe at kid bans, but I'm ok with this. This place sounds like an experience more than just a restaurant. Similarly, B and Bs usually have limits on young kids, because B and Bs are trying to maintain a particular ambiance. However, I don't love the slippery slope aspect of it. Once some restaurants start, others will follow. I guess this restaurant has its own groove, but if I managed a high-end restaurant I would just offer a brunch or lunch service for families.
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