-
@MsLipGloss: Still offensive and rude, no matter how you word it.
-
I don't know this specific lady's story, so I won't judge her decision. That said, in general I think "I'm not happy" is a poor excuse for anything, including divorce. Happiness isn't something that you can just expect to happen to you (infact, it's much more likely you'll experience troubles and hardships). Happiness is a mindset and something you earn.
-
I think if you loved someone enough to marry them then you should be willing to work on it, but I definitely wouldn't stay in a loveless marriage if I had tried hard to make it work.
-
@mrbee: ok! Yes, people should make vows that match their intentions and beliefs if they're going to make a vow at all.
-
This is a tough one for me after going through a horrible patch with DH soon after LO's birth. That tough time proved to me how hard, boring marriage can be. Once everything went horrible, we went into counseling. We're still recovering from it 18 months or so on. As much I went into the marriage thinking divorce wasn't an option, it seemed better than the living hell we were going through.
I grew up in an happy home with two married parents while DH didn't. I still remember my parents fighting, but I also remember a lot of happiness as well. To me, that seems normal. DH has vague memories of his parents' marriage. Add to MIL playing the victim card about DH's dad being so bad. I don't totally believe her characterization of him.
This past year, I watched my best friend get crapped on by her ex-husband. He cheated on her around their 2nd anniversary and then again a couple of years later. She worked and worked on their marriage. He didn't. She got taken to the cleaners in the divorce too. She did nothing wrong in the marriage. I know that she didn't envision where she is now. Once she's out of the hell left in his wake, she'll be so much happier.
I think divorce is always a last resort option. If nothing can be salvaged despite work put in by both parties, it could be for the best for everyone involved. For me, after getting through a rough patch, my perspective changed on it.
-
@Weagle: Get over yourself. It is no more offensive than telling someone your morals/religion dictate that divorce isn't an option (implying that if they are divorced/consider divorce that they are not religious--or not religious enough--or amoral) . . . or that they lack the intestinal fortitude (stubbornness) to gut out a bad marriage. *BAER*
-
@septca: I totally agree with what you say. I really believe happiness is a choice. I think when we get married we have an obligation to do everything in our power to try and make it work. DH and I are committed to always fighting for our marriage. However I sort of think saying divorce is not an option is tempting fate...
ETA: Dr. Laura is a jerk, her point was not made with the way she spoke to that woman. I think there are many more effective ways to encourage someone to try to work on their marriage.
-
@sarbear: agreed! My parents liked eachother better and I liked my dad better when we weren't all living in the same house.
I will try very hard to work on my marriage before getting divorced and I expect it to ebb and flow, but if I was very unhappy, I would do it.
-
@mediagirl: we vowed to treat each other with respect until we died. We both talked about divorce before we got married- ie under what circumstances, how we would deal financially and with custody, etc.
I believe that I will be married to my husband until I die. That's why I married him. But I'm also a realist, so we talked about these things and agreed that no matter what the future holds we could vow to be respectful.
I think successful relationships have a lot more to do with hard work than they do love. -
@MsLipGloss: I didn't imply that. I was simply stating (valid) reasons that people give for saying divorce isn't an option. For you to give such broad labels is offensive. Wow, you're getting really worked up about this.
-
Happiness is a choice? You all should meet my ex-husband. I get what you're saying, that we can't just sit back and passively expect to be happy, but try being happy when you're chained to someone as damaged and selfish and critical as him. Sometimes choosing to be happy means getting divorced. I'm happy for people whose marriage is so good that they can say things like that. It doesn't always work out that way for all of us, despite our best intentions.
-
@Weagle: I'm not worked up at all. You're the one who called me offensive and rude. My opinion is what it is. I don't have to sugar coat it so as not to try not to offend your delicate sensibilities. Although my first post was pretty tame, if not blunt. I stand by my opinion. It may not be PC or HBPC, but it is reality.
-
Oh my goodness, I can't stand Dr. Laura... she doesn't even have a Ph.D. is psychology... her Ph.D. is in physiology or kinesiology or something like that, but she passes it off like it's in psych!
I think divorce should be the very last resort after trying extremely hard to make things work. If counseling, etc. fails and everyone is miserable after years of trying, then I don't think it's worth continuing.
-
@Mae: I completely agree! You made a vow and that doesn't mean you just walk when you hit a rough patch - like you said, counseling, really making an effort, dating, etc. And unless it's a situation with cheating or deception, I think you should give it some time. But if you've exhausted all the options you aren't doing anyone a favor by staying miserable in an unhappy marriage for the rest of your life.
-
@MsLipGloss: As someone who has a meaningful Christian faith and who is married to someone who shares that faith -- I find your comments incredibly offensive and distasteful. In our faith, divorce is not a legitimate option outside of abuse or adultery. And in our faith, that divorce wouldn't be a spiritual divorce but rather a physical legal one. We are neither naive or masochistic -- this is our faith, and my faith in God's opinion and His Word is far more important to me than some momentary happiness.
I realize that is an unpopular opinion and I would never say that I'm more moral or religious than someone else for holding that opinion. Never. But, it's the way I have chosen to lead my life and I don't appreciate being called naive by someone who doesn't share that -- especially when I would never call their opinions wrong, naive, etc. They're just different!
I know that this post is probably enough to get me blacklisted on this site because the majority of people on here seem to fall into the more non-religious camp and that's ok. I'm here for fun and parenting advice/stories, not to discuss my personal religion. But I just needed to stand up for people who DO allow their faith to dictate their lives in situations such as divorce.
-
I'll do everything in my power to make my marriage work, but I'm not going to stick around an unhealthy situation just for the sake of saying I did.
-
I think the concepts in the topic are just too complex to make a black and white opinion. Happiness is very complex. Healthy relationships take a lot of work and so does acheiving happiness in yourself let alone with anyone else. So... I still think you have an obligation to try to make a relationship work that you committed to as best you can.
-
I can't stand Dr Laura.
That being said, I can't judge why anyone decides to get divorced. There are a million different facets to every individual, and a million different facets to each marriage. What is a divorce worthy offense to me may be a minor blip to someone else, and vice versa.
I would work at my marriage before getting a divorce, and have worked at my marriage. We are no strangers to counseling... But if there ever came a point that our relationship was detrimental to my son's well being I would do everything in my power to protect him. -
@mrbee: marriage can be whatever people want it to be, they should pick vows that reflect their beliefs on marriage. i do think people blindly recite vows. we were very involved in the writing of our ceremony & included a community vow because we wanted everyone present to commit to support us and holding us to the vows we shared.
no one knows if divorce is the right choice for someone else. marriage means different things to different people, no one marriage is right for everyone. i don't think others are wrong for getting divorced, but aside from being beaten regularly in front of my children or SO abusing children, nothing within our marriage would make me feel justified in seeking a divorce. even if i left because i was being beaten regularly in front of our children, i wouldn't seek a legal divorce unless he tried to take children from me. i gave my life to someone, i made sure it was someone i trusted with my life, if i made a poor choice, that's too bad & i better find a way to make it work. he is not responsible for my happiness, i am. now if he were to step outside our marriage, a divorce wouldn't be me leaving him, because he would have already left. my views on what marriage is to me aren't for everyone, but i feel VERY strongly about them for myself. i know lots of people who are happier, better off since getting a divorce and i am happy for them, it's just not for me.
ETA: i do not believe in a god, so my beliefs on my marriage are not influenced by any religion, they're personal beliefs shared by my husband for our marriage.
-
@coopsmama: You're not blacklisted in my book at all. I share the exact same views as you do! Although you worded that so much better than I could have.
-
@coopsmama: Question for you about the two acceptable reasons you gave to divorce: abuse and infidelity. Is this something you and your husband agreed upon or something preached and reinforced by your church?
-
@coopsmama: If you have never dealt with divorce up close and personal, or if you haven't ever been in relationship that was physically/emotionally manipulative and destructive, then you are naive. Naive = lacking experience or knowledge. And if that is true, then I am glad you have never had such an experience. And if you stay in a bad marriage solely for the sake of your religious beliefs or because you are stubborn, then you are masochistic. Masochistic = a willingness/tendency to subject yourself to unpleasant or trying experiences.
And as far as standing up for people who allow their faith to dictate their lives . . . well, I am standing up for people who have made the incredibly difficult and heart-wrenching decision to divorce, and who are, as a result, judged and looked down upon by those who--among others--allow faith to dictate their lives, and who accuse them of lacking religion/morals, not trying hard enough, etc.
You are, of course, free to have any opinion and to share it here. I certainly don't think you'll be *blacklisted* for it.
-
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I can't answer for @coopsmama: but as someone who is very similar to her, it was both agreed upon and is taught.
-
I am a Christian, as for me and my husband divorce isn't an option but neither is a loveless marriage. From a Christian point of view living in a loveless marriage is just as much of a sin as getting a divorce. So I agree that staying together "for the kids" is a terrible plan, if our hearts are so hard that we aren't willing to make it work we might as well divorce. People seem to take marriage way too lightly now and it makes me sad, I guess I am still a believer in till death do us part.
-
@coopsmama: +1
-
@MsLipGloss: Well said.
-
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: Jesus did say that no man should divorce his wife unless she has cheated on him. That said, in the same breath, Jesus also says that anyone who gets divorced and remarried is guilty of adultery. (Matt 5:31-32) The main reason divorce is considered an illegitimate practice to Christians is because the Bible says you can never actually get divorced once you are married.
-
Outside of abuse and/or adultery (any infidelity), I do not see a clear & indefinite reason for divorce. That being said: dr.laura is extremely rude and if she is a doctor at all, she needs to think of a more gentle and productive way to tell these children of their parents' divorce. Or she should have maybe suggested counseling to see if there may be hope of rekindling love.
I don't agree with @mr.bee: that the "til death due you part" should be removed from vows. Why get married then if the intention to be together forever isn't there? At least intend well!!! This is marriage, not dating.
-
@Weagle: My husband and I don't have absolute deal breakers or automatic causes for divorce including abuse or infidelity. Do you think if you tried to work through those you would be supported by your church community?
I wasn't there, so I don't know why my grandmother stayed after having her head split open with a frying pan by her husband or knowing he was putting up his mistresses rent free in apartments he owned. But, I think some of it had to do with the teachings of her faith. My mom always said she stayed because she was Catholic.
-
@CupQuakeWalk: I agree with everything you just said. What the doctor said was just plain rude and unhelpful!
-
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: oh, yes. They're not automatic deal breakers. In cases of abuse and infertility, our church would encourage us to separate and try to work it out. And they would be very proactive in helping us do so. Should one of us be unrepentant, they would advise divorce for the safety of the other party.
-
@CupQuakeWalk: I feel the same way. Those are my religious views as well.
Then again, I can't judge anyone else's marriage or divorce. I never do...except kids do play a part in divorce and all together, I think it's sad.
-
@coopsmama: It's so refreshing to find someone on here who also shares my faith! Have you read this momentary marriage by John Piper? LOVED what he said about marriage.
Anyway, I agree with you. Just wanted you to know that there is at least one person who shares your view.
-
@Weagle: So then divorce IS an option, even for the church?
-
Ouch. What a b she is. I never will like that woman though after interviewing for a job with her. Bad vibes all around and just full of negative energy.
-
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I know that wasn't directed to me but I believe those exceptions were only allowed because God knew "mans" hard heart and knew that some wouldn't want to work past that. If both the man and wife choose to work through that and forgive eachother the church would be more than willing to help and support them, it is usually encouraged as long as they are both willing to move forward.
-
@cyndistar3: right like, whether you agree with them morally or not, you are a professional and they called for HELP. Do all in your power to help the situation. I'm sure Dr.Laura did not make the situation any easier. There are many avenues to try before the big D and even then, breaking it to children should be gentle and loving! Urgggg
-
1. I feel like Larua Schlessinger is an idiot. @CupQuakeWalk: she has a PhD in physioligy not psychology or psychiarty so though she is a Dr her credentials are often in question as is her advice.
2. Though I hope to never get to that point, of course divorce is an option. It's an option for everyone. Choosing not to divorce is also an option.
3. Anectdotally, I was in the car with my mom and she had Laura on. The caller was a woman in a sexless, loveless marriage with a husband who refused to work on it, seek marriage counselling or change anything. This woman was told to suck it up, stay in her marriage because the alternative would be her having to co-parent with whatever hot young thing her ex-husband will pick up. To paraphrase 'Is that what you want? To have to share your children with whatever bimbo your husband picks up next.' She implied that the no-sex not caring husband would obviously lead some sort of glamorous new bachelor life and she'd be stuck in drudgery struggling to make ends meat and keep her kids in line. The idea that she is passing this off as legitimate advice churns my blood.
-
@CupQuakeWalk: Exactly!
-
@JoJoGirl: Not the first option, but cases of abuse and infidelity are generally accepted reasons in Protestant, evangelical churches. (There's no single governing body among Protestant churches, so opinions may vary over denominations) I can not speak for churches outside of that realm as I don't know enough and generally don't agree with their theology.
- Google Plus
- Stumbleupon
- Twitter
- Facebook
- Pinterest
- Favorite2
195 comments