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@Mrs. Blue: Yeah, if I hadn't experienced it, I would have thought the same thing! And several of these comments came from other professional women. I was blindsided and confused.
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@MsLipGloss: That's crazy! I can't imagine another professional knocking you working.
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@Mrs. Blue: *shrug* and *scratcheshead* . . . hence the confusion!
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I feel kind of like I'm in the middle since I work Part time, some WOH. some WAH. I definitely think the mommy war still rages on. There is more awareness of it so most people watch what they say.
I have lots of people just "assume" since DH makes a good salary that I will be/am a SAHM. I also have people at work that just "assume" I would continue to work FT since I have a great career. It's the assumptions that drives me nuts. I get both the "but they are only little once" comments and then the "I don't think you are the SAHM type" comments. Why can't people just be happy for everyone else's choices? I don't get it..
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@kml636: same here. My mom has told me she feels bad DH doesn't make enough for me to be able to stay at home. I work part time and I definitely hear some professional women make jabs at not necessarily stay at home moms, but the idea that it's best for women to be at home, which can border on offensive if a SAHM were to hear.
The worst was testifying in a legislative committee about the importance of preschool. The only other women who testified talked about how it was terrible to let other people raise your kids and no one can replace mom and you should just make sacrifices. Yeah that was hell.
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For the most part, people I encounter in real life are very careful about offering advice or criticizing. The only semi "mommy wars" stuff I have experienced (and honestly, didn't recognize it at the time for what it was) was working as a teacher in Texas.
In my old school district in Texas, *if* you had enough sick days saved up (which would depend on how long you'd been working and if you had any other maternity leaves or long illnesses), you can have up to 6 weeks paid mat leave (using sick days) and up to 12 weeks unpaid. And that's 12 weeks from when you give birth, whether or not school is in session. There was some talk one year of the school district changing it to 12 weeks of time school is in session (say you give birth over summer break...you get summer break and then 12 weeks when school starts), but the most vocal opponents were all the moms who "had to" go back to work at 6 weeks and were "fine", therefore ALL mothers should/can do it, and no, the policy can't be changed.
I was on a hearing committee for this issue and we would go round and round the same argument and I was just so shocked that the people who weren't parents (like me at the time) and the men were the ones saying, "this is a good thing". Anyway...it got shot down. Too many moms that were against it because they didn't get it when they had their children.
Mommy wars.
We also had a big fight one year at the school district over some special grant money the state was giving out to "high performing" districts--but the catch was that each school had to write up their own rules for who recieves the money. Our school's committee ruled that EVEN IF A TEACHER IS ON MATERNITY LEAVE for part of the year, they should have to come in during their maternity leave to attend faculty meetings (attendance at faculty meetings being a requirement for getting the grant).
That was insane to me. We were making the rules ourselves, so that never had to be a rule at all--and once again, the driving force were the other moms. One of them kept insisting that moms want a "chance to get out of the house" because they are so bored at home during maternity leave, so it was fine to make them attend faculty meetings. And if they didn't attend? They didn't get the extra bonus money, even if their students performed well on the state tests at the end of the year.
Ridiculousness that now as a mom, I find downright pernicious and anti-woman.
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They're saying the % of women who said there was hostility within their own circle dropped to 29% and therefore mot wars don exist? 29% still seems like a lot to me.
Anyway yes they exist, more fiercely online, even with people who know each other IRL. Fb is terrible. Once I was basically told I dont know how to think because I'm pro-vax.
Heres a funny yet disgusting one. Once, I disagreed with a stupid meme (This new mom that I knew irl had a history of judgmental memes, thanks to "the alpha parent.") about how people without kids don't know love. I think she had a lot of people from maybe baby-center or circle of moms or some other crazy forum on her fb because they all had babies in the same month and although every comment attemptin to defend it also involved changing the wording/meaning, it turned into me being "offended" and "the only one who has a problem with it" and "STUCK ON STUPID" and all the way to "I feel sorry for your children...a horrible mother..." And I hadn't posted a single insult. They were insulted that I dare disagree with a pat-myself-on-the-back-mommy-meme. In fact before I got called a crap mom I had said "agree to disagree, I guess." Then it devolved into people telling the girl who posted it that she was a great mom, seemingly to draw contrast to me. For the record I didnt say a single thing about her parenting, JUST about the specific meme, that I thought it could be condescending toward childless couples people. I kind of had the topic of IF in mind for some reason or other. I wanted to direct these crazies to stfu parents but I just defriended/blocked. Obviously I'm not friends with that girl anymore!
I've also experienced IRL comments about bottle feeding, not to mention the not-so-subtle looks at target or wherever when I bought formula.
And let's not forget the one-uppers. I'm not even going to go into that!
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@jedeve: omg... To me it's scary that there are people with such strong opinions about how I should raise my child like the person you had to deal with in the preschool issue!
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Oh yes, then there was an acquaintance (man w SAH wife) who said that he blames daycare and working mothers for the demise of our society. Tons of fun.
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@googly-eyes: IMO, the point was more that why would 63% say yes it exists if only 29 had actually experienced it -- and that all of the chatter about it, fans the flames/makes anything that does exist, worse. But maybe I'm reading it differently (and I'm glad that at least one person actually clicked over and read the article!)
Just stumbled on this soon to be published book, that some of you might be interested in that relates: http://goodmothermyth.com/
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I have experienced "mommy wars" to a small extent IRL. Mostly, about my inability to BF past 6 months (despite my best efforts). Sadly, I've encountered most of those subtle, mommy-war jabs PPs have mentioned on HB.
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I haven't experienced the mommy wars too much IRL amongst my friends, with the exception of 1-2 mom's on my FB feed that are extremely vocal about their parenting choices. I just choose to hide them.
I actually feel more judged by my friends without kids than I do from other moms. One friend said to me once (she was talking TO me about other moms that had babies around the same time I did) that she was going to, "wait one year to let the mom's get their babies out of their system before trying to initiate with them". That comment stemmed from my question, "So have you hung out with X and Y lately?"...
That statement completely caught me off guard, and I was shocked she felt that way.
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@scg00387: You definitely have a point there. But I still see it like if 1/3 of moms experience it, many more will have witnessed it happen or heard a story second hand from people they generally believe. The other thing to think about, though, is that these days people argue about EVERYTHING because of the internet...not just mommy related stuff.
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@scg00387: we do some RIE stuff too (mostly about language/the way we speak to him) and I think people think we're cuckoo.
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I mostly got flak from my MIL and female NPs who use their personal parenting choices to support advice they give as professionals, even if their education didn't cover that material.
My ILs were anti me breastfeeding and tried to talk me out of it when LO was less than a week old. Also when I didn't do rice cereal they told me they thought I was not "giving him enough food." Also related to SAH, my SIL once told me that a couple who only had one earner wouldn't ever "get anywhere," earnings wise I guess? She didn't clarify and I didn't ask!
I've had NPs try to talk me out of BF or talk me into doing things that were destructive to BF relationship just because they didn't BF so couldn't understand how their advice could be damaging, for example when LO dropped in the weight charts she advised changing over to pumping only and mixing my milk with formula which is insane because that would have ruined my supply, because baby always takes more than a pump and adding formula would have meant him taking even less milk from me, thus reducing my supply even more.
Instead I nursed then pumped afterward and supplemented with my own milk. Her plan would have been awful for me! She just wasn't informed.
@jedeve: I agree with you, I think! There are things I am naive enough to think are just objectively better than other choices. But taken as a whole, they aren't necessarily good for me. For example, I can't believe I CIOed. Honestly I regret doing it. But at the time I was so desperate and really emotionally circling the drain...I had to weigh out the emotional toll on him from me being a detached and miserable mother vs. the toll from crying. So yeah, would never say I wanted to CIO, or that I feel good about the decision, but it is what I chose to do when faced with the alternative of going insane.
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The closest I've felt to mommy wars actually came from some men I work with. No less than three suggested after I returned to work that I should just stay home because DH makes good money. As if my career doesn't matter and we should and could just live without my income. We actually could live without my income, but instead we're paying off our mortgage faster, putting away aggressively for retirement, and even enjoying some of the finer things all while raising a pretty cute kid.
The only other thing I've experienced is other mommies feeling like they need to rationalize formula feeding to me when they found out I successfully BFd for 15 months. Without even being prompted by me (I honestly don't care how you feed your kid!) they feel the need to explain why or how they weren't able to BF just because I did.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: I think some things are objectively better and some things there is just no clear right or wrong and some things are better for some people and not for others. I think mommy wars exist when people say "x is objectively better for all kids but do it if you want."
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