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@Adira: I agree. I didn't mean it as a way to diminish other people's worries or anxieties. I think I mean it more as we all have different worries and we all think differently about the best ways to go around protecting our families and each other.
@Maysprout: There are regulations over drunk driving, etc., and there are also regulations about gun ownership.
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@Eko: I gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.
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@Eko: And the current gun regulations aren't enough. Have you read this? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ar-15-orlando_us_576059f3e4b0e4fe5143fd4d
Yet if I went to CVS right now I'd only be allowed to buy one box of Sudafed. Makes no sense.
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@Eko: Ok, just checking! I think though that it is important to acknowledge other people's fears in this type of discussion. It kind of felt like you were marginalizing my fears with your comments, but it could be just the way I read it.
It could be that I am the only one on this thread worried about a school shooting happening where my son attends...I live in the same state as Sandy Hook and last year, there was a threat phoned in to the elementary school down the street (that my son was originally going to attend this September). It's very much close to home for me.
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@lawbee11: I kind of think ammo should be like Sudafed. You can buy a set amount in a certain amount of time. Not sure what that amount is or the expiration date on it, but it's something to look into!
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@lawbee11: I 100% completely agree with you. I definitely am not in the camp of nothing being done. There are a few arguments about gun control being passed around. I am just not in favor of banning all guns or semi-automatic ones. I admittedly do not know enough about existing gun laws to be able to suggest a specific solution.
@looch: My apologies, I did not mean to do that at all. I think a lot of people have personal connections to the topic one way or another. I would likely feel the same way you do if I lived close to Sandy Hook. I live in Boston and work close to where the bombings were and had friends run in the race, who thankfully made it out ok. I personally have more worries about people being able to make simple bombs, such as the pressure cooker bombs, which aren't regulated, then guns, which is regulated. Kind of off topic, but I say that not to diminish anyone's feelings or concerns about guns or gun related violence and more needs to be done, but there are uses ordinary people use them for besides just killing.
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I'm really confused why we think banning guns won't solve the problem of mass shootings.
As far as I have read (though I'm no expert), machine guns were banned from manufacture past 1986. Existing ones are still allowed to be sold but no new ones. According to an article I read (sorry forgot to save the link) they are expensive due to their relative rarity.
None of the recent mass shootings have been perpetrated via a machine gun. Is this just a coincidence or has banning new manufacture of machine gun actually helped prevent mass shootings using machine gun?
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I will freely admit that the fact that I'm in Canada colours
my thinking on this issue - I am pretty sure I've never seen a gun in real life that wasn't, as someone said upthread, attached to a police officer.But for those who said that you're not afraid of a shooter at your child's school (or church, or YMCA or etc), could you explain why? That's the part that is hard for me to reconcile. Why aren't those possibilities more scary? Or, if I'm being needlessly fearful, how come?
Edited because even the most liberal posts sometimes have accidentally gendered language.
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IMO, the gun culture and fetishization of guns and being a modern-day cowboy is out of control in the US. The fetishization to need to stock up on guns in order to fight our government (which is equipped with plenty of weapons that no gun could even touch) is out of control; as is the "us vs. them" mentality.
I get that people hunt and have no problem with that – I live in Maine; trust me, we’ve got plenty of hunters here. I get that people collect guns; several members of my family do. I get that we can’t get all the guns off the streets and that criminals will still break laws – they already do that and we still have plenty of laws on the books. I’m pretty liberal and don’t know of anyone who wants to ban “all guns”.
Yes I worry about school shootings. I worry about how to explain to my 4 year old what a mass shooting is and I’m sad and horrified that when she gets into elementary school they will begin “active shooter” drills as many schools do now.
I really dislike the argument I’ve seen about how you can’t control for all levels of violence/hate, citing McVeigh, 9/11 and the Boston Marathon bombings as examples: There’s a good reason you keep hearing those 3 examples – because they are isolated. How many planes have been brought down by terrorists using box cutters since 2001? How many trucks filled with fertilizer, bombs, chemicals, etc. have been driven to federal buildings and brought them down since 1995? And is that more likely because people stopped having the desire to bomb buildings or hijack airplanes or because we put security and safety regulations in place which have resulted in fewer incidents?
What about gun massacres on the other hand though? Are those pretty isolated incidents in the same way the examples above are? Counting only shootings post-1995 (year of Oklahoma City) *and* that killed more than 3 people (# of people killed in the Boston bombing), we have (at least, I’ve probably missed some):
Frontier Middle School
San Diego State U
Pearl High School
Westside Middle School
Thurston High School
Columbine
Appalachian School of Law
University of Arizona
Red Lake High School
Louisiana Tech
Oikos University
Trolley Square
ABB power plant
Appomattox shootings
American Civic Association shooting
Excel Industries shooting
Grand Rapids
Todel Apartments FL
Nevada IHOP 2011
Kalamazoo County
New Life Church
Lockheed Martin shooting
Kirkwood City Council meeting
Overland Park Jewish Community Center
Café Racer
Sandy Hook
Nickel Mines School
Marysville High School
Northern IL University
U of AL
Chardon High School
Hazard Community College
Umpqua Community College
VA Tech
San Bernardino
CO Planned Parenthood
2014 Las Vegas shootings
Ft. Hood
WI Sikh temple shooting
Emanuel AME church
Chattanooga Marines base shooting
OrlandoThe list above doesn’t include the literally thousands of domestic violence related gun murders each year, or violence resulting from drug deals etc.
I take my shoes off to fly because 1 guy tried to smuggle a shoe-bomb onto a plane. I have to give my ID and license before buying children’s cold medicine. Something meaningful has to be done regarding guns and gun violence in the US.
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@yoursilverlining:
Your post was perfect!
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@yoursilverlining For President!
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This is happening, will be interesting to see how it progresses:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/06/senate-democrats-just-began-filibuster-demand-new-gun-laws -
@MrsSCB: I was just coming here to post that!
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@yoursilverlining:
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@yoursilverlining: bravo!
I live pretty close to Nickel Mines, so yeah, the idea of my kid being executed in school really wears on me.
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I fully recognise that Im from a completely different culture and so I cant possibly relate to many of the issues raised here...... so take what I say against that backdrop, please.....and dont be offended. I'm going to speak from the heart here, not from the head.
Give up your f'king guns, people. I don't even want hear your lame excuses. How much more of this sh1t has to happen before you sort yourselves out. Never mind "gun control" (although a bit of bloody control would be a start), ban the things. Ban them. Why would you ever, ever want something in your house that's sole purpose is to KILL?? Yes, guns dont kill people, people kill people - people who, like me and you, are imperfect, easy to anger, prone to mental ill health and totally unpredictable. Dont give PEOPLE guns, then perhaps they wont barge into clubs, schools, public spaces are murder huge numbers of people.
Seriously, it blows my tiny mind that, in some of your states, people carry guns in their handbags. Its terrifying. I think Id feel safer with the aforementioned mountain lions than in some of your public places.
Rant over.
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@yoursilverlining: THANK YOU!!!!
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@Cherrybee: I had to unfriend someone because of his stance on being able to bring his gun with him everywhere. He decided to boycott Babies R Us/Toys R Us because they wouldn't allow him to bring his gun in the stores. Why the hell would you need to have a firearm inside a store for babies and children, where large numbers of babies and children are present? And then said that if you were against having guns, you should just unfriend him. So I did.
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@yoursilverlining:
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@yoursilverlining: Thank you.
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@yoursilverlining: thank you for articulating my thoughts!
@Cherrybee: agree. The gun obsession in this culture is sick and f-ed up. My only comfort is that I'm in the more liberal Northeast AND that I have the option to leave the US, as my husband is English.
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@yoursilverlining: THANK YOU
My sister teaches kindergarten at a school 5 minutes from my house (the one my children will go to) and in May, a few parents got pissed at each other at pick up. They drove off campus (barely) and they were pointing guns at each other WITH CHILDREN IN THE CARS.
I just can't.
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@meredithNYC: ha ha, me too. If it gets worse, we are out of here.
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@lilteacherbee: this is unbelievable....it scares me that instead of h having a conversation people are quick to pull out a gun when they're upset
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So my AR-15 gun owning friend shared this with me.
He says banning the AR-15 would be banning rifles.
Ok, thanks for pointing that out. I guess I'll suggest banning anything that has more than 5 rounds. Also, the AR-15 is said to be able to hold a magazine that holds upto 100 rounds. My friend and the picture below failed to mention that part.
Oh, recently the media updated that the shooter is said to not have an AR-15 gun. It was a Sig Sauer MCX rifle.
"The standard magazine for a Glock, like the one Mateen carried, is 15 rounds. The Sig Sauer MCX rifle Mateen used had double that capacity: 30 rounds. "
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-ar15-gun-used-in-orlando-20160613#ixzz4Bgjuoine
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on FacebookUgh! If the shooter had a gun that only fired 5 rounds maybe there would have been a lot less deaths and injuries. They would have been able to get away or hide since they were held hostage. There would have been time while he was reloading. 49 people died because he had a gun with that many rounds. The number dead could have been reduced.
Why do cilivians need a gun that can fire 15 or 30 rounds?
Ok, the AR-15 is lighter and has better accuracy or precision. Are there no lightweight guns out there that have the same precision as the AR-15 and doesn't have the ability to fire 30 rounds?
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So, here in Canada a gun like the AR-15 your magazine is restricted to 5 rounds. You have more than this and you are looking at doing time, it is a serious offense.
I think a country as a whole should have consistent gun laws. It shouldn't vary state by state.
I've pretty much always lived in a house with guns and I've never felt unsafe. But they have always been locked up properly.
DH has started to teach DS gun safety at 3. Although I have no interest in guns, I will probably learn more about them in the next few years and how to shoot them. I agree with whoever said that everyone should have to know gun safety. It doesn't mean you have to shoot them, but to know what to do if you come across one and how to safely handle it.
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@yoursilverlining: Well said!
@Cherrybee: Agree completely. I believe there are many of us who would completely support an all-out ban, but it seems too "extreme" so there is a lot of back-peddling when it comes to public argument. (For context, I'm also for ending all wars, human trafficking, poverty and world hunger.) My feeling is that nothing major will shift on the national stage until more of us left-leaning folks are crystal clear about where we draw the line.. Enough is enough. If we look at the shift that has happened with desegregation, equal rights, support of gay marriage and transgender issues or even just cigarette smoking, it is possible for our culture to transform and adapt to the times.. It amounts to taking an unequivocal stance to send a clear message. (And frankly it's the strategy the pro-gun lobby has taken all along.)
Would a ban create other problems? Sure. There is no panacea for the human condition, but I'd readily give up something I felt I had a right to if it meant for a better, safer world. American culture is about invention and reinvention after all. We are flexible and malleable and will find better ways of feeling safe in our homes or against wild animals or even imbalances of governmental power. I come from a family of hunters. They are also rule-followers. They would give up their rifles and bullets and go bow-hunting instead.
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My current stance, while probably mostly uneducated, is that guns with magazines should just be banned. Go back to making guns that take up to 6 bullets that you have to manually insert one bullet at a time! You'd still have multiple bullets for hunting situations where it's vital. You could still do some sort of shooting contest. You'd still have the ability to defend yourself. But it would make it a LOT harder to gun down 100+ people in minutes!
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What irritates the shit out of me with this whole "it's my right as an American and don't you dare take away my rights" argument is that it's (mainly) coming from right-wing conservatives. You know, the same ones who want to infringe upon women's rights to their bodies, LGBTQ rights to choose public restrooms, people's rights to vote (voter ID laws), etc etc etc. You can't pick and choose which rights you stand up for. It's bullshit hypocrisy at its finest.
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/politics/gun-filibuster-senate-democrat/index.html
Democratic filibuster lasted 14 hours and came with a promise to vote on a bill to implement universal background checks and bar suspected terrorists from purchasing firearms.
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@littlebug: Totally agree!
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From the Boston Globe.
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@yoursilverlining: Bravo! Thank you.
@meredithNYC: I am thankful that I also live in the NE without the insane gun culture. I feel very trapped though that my options to leave this country if necessary are very limited (despite being fluent in another language).I have decided however that my family will not travel to places with liberal gun laws until something is done. I think a widespread travel boycott to places like Florida might be effective.
@Cherrybee: US resident who also doesn't understand. Guns are our real terrorist problem.
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@Treytonsmom2011: I really am going to try to be nice here. Yes, you spelled your points out calmly and clearly. But, they still aren't valid points. Is your husband's ability to accurately shoot a coyote really more important than limiting the number of human lives lost? Should we really bank on the malfunctioning of high capacity magazines as a good mitigation to the loss of life? I really and truly don't understand why you even brought up the malfunction of the Aurora shooter's equipment. Oh guys, nothing to worry about here, those high capacity magazines don't even work so well. I mean, James Holmes was only able to kill 12 people and injure 70 because that equipment is so unreliable, so no need to regulate it. Yes, knives can kill someone. But you can't kill 50 people with a knife by yourself in a very short period of time. First of all, you have to get much closer to them and essentially engage in hand to hand combat. Secondly, you can't kill multiple people in a matter of seconds with a knife. In a place like the Orlando night club, the crowd could have disarmed one man with a knife. They couldn't disarm one man with a semi automatic gun.
I agree with everything @yoursilverlining: said. Mass loss of life from weapons OTHER than guns are isolated incidents in this country. Mass loss of life from guns has become all too common place. To not be fearful that your child could be a victim of a shooting is incredibly incredibly naïve.
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I thought this clip better articulates our issue here.
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A friend of mine got this text from the NRA. She has no idea how they got her number.
Funny how, we are the ones exploiting when the NRA and pro-gun people have been doing this for years (decades). Very hypocrital. The text could have easily said "Pro-gun legislators trying to exploit a grieving nation to pass their agenda." It goes both ways.
This is letter written to NRA members when I go to the link in the text.
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@bluestriped bee: Wow... this makes me sick. The NRA-ILA disgust me.
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The NRA seems to think they they are our 4th branch of government. They are holding our country hostage. We need to take our country back from this radical special interest group.
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@Adira: @petitenoisette: Yup.
my thinking on this issue - I am pretty sure I've never seen a gun in real life that wasn't, as someone said upthread, attached to a police officer.
Your post was perfect!
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