After reading some of the comments about the "Meternity" article/book, I'm wondering:
Have you ever worked in a job where child free people HAD to work longer/harder than people with kids? What was the situation?
After reading some of the comments about the "Meternity" article/book, I'm wondering:
Have you ever worked in a job where child free people HAD to work longer/harder than people with kids? What was the situation?
hostess / wonderful grape / 20803 posts
Never. When I was back from my maternity leave I was expected to pull my weight, and did. I had to leave work at 5, but also started arriving at 730 because my kid woke at 5. I worked nights and weekends to make sure that I got my job done. I'm a lawyer.
eggplant / 11716 posts
I'll post my response here: I have always worked in education, and I guess there are layers to my answer. Every teacher is responsible for their own classroom, so when it comes right down to it, every teacher is the master of their own little domain and we can choose when we offer before/after school tutoring, how often we offer it, how many assignments we give (therefore, how many we have to grade), etc.
When I wasn't married and was child free, I DID spend a lot more time at school and I pressured myself to give tons of after school tutoring, to give lots of assignments, to grade them immediately, etc. Now that I have kids, I assign less and grade less, and rarely stay after school if I can help it.
The second layer is all the "optional" electives teachers help with---coach the sports, chair the clubs, sit on committees, organize after school events, etc. That list is endless and I've noticed that those jobs are covered mostly by the few males that work in the school and the child free teachers (and teachers with older kids). My guess is the men are usually the breadwinners, so they sign up for all the extra stuff for the extra $$, and the child free teachers are usually the younger teachers who are still "paying their dues", so to speak.
I used to sign up for tons of extra stuff, now I sign up for almost nothing. The money is not worth the money I have to pay for additional child care.
TL;DR Teachers usually don't HAVE to work more if they are child free, but a lot of times they tend to do more.
grapefruit / 4187 posts
Never. Pre-kids I was known by our clients as the only person still in the office at 5pm on a Friday and would therefore sometimes be asked to handle accounts that weren't mine, but it wasn't only parents skating out early and it was totally my choice to stay because I wanted to advance my career.
clementine / 854 posts
Nope. I don't have kids right now and I think there are some people that I work with who have kids but they tend to put in more overtime than I do. I rarely put in overtime or work more than I have to. I just value my time outside of work more.
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
Nope. I mean, admittedly, I've previously only worked part-time cashier jobs and I've been at this company for 10 years now. Parents and non-parents are treated equally. I still have to get in my hours, but now my start time is 7:30 so that I can leave on-time to pick up my kids from daycare. My boss is really understanding about family emergencies, but I imagine he's understanding about most things. I never really had emergencies as a non-parent, so I can't really compare, but I was never asked to work more/longer/harder than parents when I was a non-parent, and I don't feel like I'm given more slack now that I am a parent.
cantaloupe / 6171 posts
Not at all. But I've always worked in academia/research fields where set hours don't matter as much as workload responsibility, so people with kids definitely worked different schedules even when I had an office/9-5 kind of job. like, many people didn't work fridays or left at like 4 to do pick up, and it wasn't a big deal because they just did more work at night or over the weekend, or just an 80%/30 hour schedule or whatever.
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
I have, I mean, I can't go into huge amounts of detail, but there have been times I haven't been able to run a meeting because I had an appointment for my son so I've had to ask someone else to cover. And it's happened to me in the other direction, where I have been asked to cover.
I don't look at it as a big deal though, it's what we do to help each other in the cycle of our work lives.
pomelo / 5257 posts
Not really. When someone is out on mat leave (like I will be soon!) everyone helps pick up the slack, kids or no. I guess people with kids get to work from home when their kids are sick, but I've never thought, "that looks fun, now I get to work from home tomorrow or it's not fair." I do get to WFH of I'm sick anyway.
apricot / 343 posts
Like @Anagram, I'm in education. So I certainly cover all of my basic responsibilities but I have a lot of flexibility in how I address them, and I am definitely addressing them in a less intensive way now than I did before kids. Also, a lot of the work of a college/university is done on a "volunteer" basis (but is used for promotion cases), and I just volunteer less for that. Which means that there is more for others to do. But I did much more than "my fair share" of the extra work before kids and I anticipate doing more of it when my children are older.
As @Looch said, I think it's ok for people to go through different cycles in their work lives and for the work environment to support that, as long as their is an expectation of things evening out in the long run. It's common for people in academia to shift priorities throughout their careers, regardless of their personal circumstances. (I just got tenure, which is a common time to dial back the extra service work that a faculty person does.)
persimmon / 1188 posts
No! Not now and not before I was a mother myself. That said, a lot of people in my company work more overtime than I do but they are compensated for it and they aren't doing my job during that time.
pomegranate / 3643 posts
No. Well I guess one time I worked on Christmas when my coworker who had kids didn't but I think that's pretty understandable.
When I was working, I had a kid, was pregnant with my second, delivered 75% of the deliverables that year even though I worked 25 hrs a week and basically did my childless coworker's job for her because she "didn't know how" and always had lots of "networking" lunches to go to. She was promoted. I left.
eggplant / 11716 posts
Maybe if I posted this on a different site--maybe Weddingbee, with fewer parents I'd get a different answer?
I have never worked in an environment where being a parent got you any extra perks (it's generally the opposite), but when I read the comments in the articles about Meternity, there are a whole lot of disgruntled people saying they work more than their parent-coworkers.
persimmon / 1101 posts
Absolutely not. This is obviously a generalization based on my specific situation, but the people in my office who have children work far harder and longer than those who are child-free. We have to make sacrifices and find outside means of support (spouses, parents, childcare), but I often stay late or go to evening/weekend events while the child-free are out at 5:00 on the dot.
pomelo / 5000 posts
@Anagram: I have had people who work more than me even before I had kids. There was one person who sat by the office window and kept track of the times people came and left. They saw coming early and staying late and thinking about work off hours as a badge of honor. I'm guessing if they were looking for reasons as to why, they might point to kids as being a factor.
eggplant / 11716 posts
@Happygal: yeah, which is crazy because the workplace should be all about the final result and productivity. It's so outdated to think hours in the office has a direct relationship to overall productivity. If an employee is motivated to finish and get out, they are going to buckle down and plow through their work...and Spend less time on HB, haha.
persimmon / 1129 posts
Non-parents certainly aren't required to work more or pick up slack in my office, but they generally DO work more. I'm a lawyer and we have a bonus system that encourages exceeding your baseline hour goal for the month. Pre-kids, when I was a go-getter and had a lot of free time, I routinely worked nights and weekends to get that bonus and look good to my bosses. Now, I'm happy if I meet the minimum requirement.
The only time non-parents have had to fill in for me is when I haven't been comfortable traveling long distances for hearings or meetings within the last couple weeks of my due date for pregnancies, but I would consider that almost more of a health reason than a parenting reason.
pear / 1697 posts
Sort of? My workplace does try very hard to release parents with kids in childcare no later than 1h past our supposed end of shift. This means folks with older kids, family childcare or no kids end up having to do all of the really late nights.
nectarine / 2210 posts
The only thing I can thing of was when a coworker realized a week before that her daycare was going to be closed Christmas Eve and she needed to take the day off. Since it was so close to the holiday we already had a schedule worked out with who had off. Our supervisor asked her to make sure it was "ok" with the only 2 people who would be left working. Obviously they said yes, but it put everyone in an awkward position.
With that said this is an office job where Christmas Eve is normally slow and we close easy. Also anyone could have had a last minute emergency where they had to take the holiday off, but here it was directly related to not knowing the daycare schedule earlier.
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
@Anagram: I think a lot of the disgruntledness comes from perception.
Many of my childless coworkers show up at 9:00 and are here until 6:00, and they see me leave at 4:00 to pick up my kids. It's totally possible they think I'm a slacker and not putting in as much work as they are. But what they don't see if that I'm arriving at 7:00 and working through lunch!
pear / 1622 posts
I think it's perception too. I used to work in a high stress office environment and we were constantly given "urgent deliverables" with ridiculous expectations/deadlines. There were definitely a lot more workers without kids than workers with kids. It seemed like people with kids would not let the stress get to them as much as people without kids and they would say - I need to go home to do xyz with my family vs the single people felt they couldn't do that. When coworkers went on maternity leave, their work would be distributed to others - I wouldn't say single people got the work more than people with families but they may have felt that way.
pomelo / 5000 posts
@Anagram: totally agree. I believe it starts at the top. At one job, the boss would stay crazy late hours, and was fond of starting her sentences with statements like, "I was thinking about this while showering...during dinner....early this morning....." But in one of the last schools I worked, I heard a new teacher ask if she could get into her classroom before the school was open for the summer. The principal said no, that she was going to be working like crazy soon enough, and the teacher needed to enjoy her last days of vacation. Very different philosophies and work environments!
pomegranate / 3393 posts
Nope. We both teach in college, so our jobs are inherently flexible, and there have been times when professors volunteered to take over someone's class for family emergencies (like the death or illness of a parent) but no one has ever had to pick up slack for anyone else because of parenthood.
pineapple / 12793 posts
I had a coworker repeatedly try to pawn her work off on me at four o'clock when she had to do pickup.
She wasn't on my team and would literally just dump stuff on my desk and say can you pick up these redlines or print whatever.
It stopped when I just didn't do it one night and she got majorally screwed in a client meeting.
I didn't deliberately not help her, but I had my own deadline and didn't have time to do her stuff.
I didn't mind doing a bit to help her but it got really annoying when she never reciprocated.
clementine / 756 posts
I think it's a very different question to ask if people without kids HAVE to work more vs if they actually do work more. Honestly, I feel like a lot of jobs don't REQUIRE overtime, even when it's common.
I know I, like many PPs, worked more pre-kids. I didn't mind the overtime too much and was making promotions. Now I have a kid and I don't like to work as much overtime. Did I HAVE to work the overtime pre-kids? No but most people do. And if you're never going to have kids, I can see that getting tiring. I also think it's more culturally acceptable to say you don't want to do overtime because you want a work/life balance when you have kids. Just look at all the people who responded to the article saying that consoling a friend isn't as important as spending time with your kid. So, yeah, I get it. But I think it's more a matter of everyone being okay with saying that home life is important whether you have kids or not.
blogger / wonderful cherry / 21628 posts
DH has. He work in a manufacturing facility which runs 24/7. Before we had DD whenever something happened that required a manager to stay late it was always him or the one other person without kids. It annoyed me so much. His counterpart is single doesn't have any kids. DH tries to keep it fair when it comes to staying late and going in when something goes down.
pomelo / 5257 posts
@Adira: Agree that a lot of it is about perception. I have one coworker who has an infant and asked if he could change his schedule to 7-4. Our department head approved it, but I'm not sure whether everyone in our department knows. I'm sure some people might think, "hey, why does he get to leave early?" If anyone actually asked me (I'm one of two dept. managers), I'd just tell them he has a different schedule but no one has.
cantaloupe / 6751 posts
No, but you could CHOOSE to work more if you wanted to. It wasn't expected at all.
cherry / 148 posts
@Anagram: yes this was exactly what I was thinking, this question on a parenting site.
With the secondary of my two jobs, my boss made it clear that I should be able to do more since I don't have kids. I am a workaholic at my primary job, and he brought up the other employees, basically saying these guys also juggle two jobs and family,, and you don't even have kids so you should be able to do more at this job. I can't even articulate it but definitely felt like there was an element of sexism in there too. Like if I were a man with aggressive career goals (like I do at my primary job) I would get a pass at "slacking" at my second job but cause I am a woman who puts her career first and doesn't have children, he brought up the children comment. I felt so resentful at his presumptuous expectations - just cause I don't have kids yet doesn't mean my life is all easy breezy! That seemed to be his perception. Not to mention let's be honest the wives of these men are the ones doing the brunt of child rearing.
I'm not even sure this is related to your question. I just still feel ragey about it half a year after the comments were made.
grapefruit / 4800 posts
Age had more to do with it than kids. There were people with diff home lives and I've been at places where that was accommodated. But everyone knew how much work they were doing and while it was tolerated there was zero chance they were moving up the ladder and I know they were talked to once for passing off duties.
At my husband's job the person who works way later than everyone else is bc he uses work time as social time and just chit chats the day away. Staying late doesn't mean effective. They all have set work that needs to be done and there's no getting around it. Some of the parents are better at just focusing on their stuff and getting out. My husband does more than his duties as much as he feels comfortable but his reviews reflect that too and hopefully will help in the long run.
hostess / wonderful watermelon / 39513 posts
I had a position that required a lot of travel with a team. Usually international travel for. 1-3 months at a time. Most of the guys with young kids always signed up but none of the moms ever did. (One guy left one trip a week early when his third child was due.)
grapefruit / 4321 posts
I'm surprised at all the 'no' answers. I don't see non-parents picking up the slack as an ongoing 'business as usual' thing, but if there is a firedrill that requires unexpected late nights, the non-parents are definitely going to be more likely to handle that than those of us who need to get to day care pick up.
hostess / papaya / 10219 posts
Not child free people per se but I have had extra responsibilities because of someone being out on maternity leave and someone else took on my work when I was gone (in addition to her own).
pomegranate / 3350 posts
Only in situations where the parents were not working full-time. All the full-time workers would put in like 60+ hours a week at times and the part-timers were never asked to go over their set hours.
Otherwise, sometimes parents would leave early but they always seemed to work in the evenings. My former boss had 2 young kids before I had any and she was a very hard worker, despite often getting in later and leaving earlier than many others in our group. She would work from home in the mornings and evenings. I don't know how she did it!
apricot / 340 posts
I work at a hospital that is open 24/7. My coworkers always expect child free people to work every single holiday and constantly trade shifts with them to accommodate for them.
We do self scheduling. The hospital policy is supposed to make it fair, as everyone is required to work every other weekend and we have a rotating holiday schedule. But there is even bias with the scheduling. People with kids get away with not scheduling themselves for enough weekends and holidays, but the people without kids get verbal warnings and their schedules changed unexpectedly for missing one weekend day.
coconut / 8472 posts
I don't think I've run into this. In my line of work we don't really share a lot of work with other team mates. I have various projects/features that I work on by myself. And the work is distributed evenly on my team. So there's picking up the slack for someone else, or someone needing to pick up the slack for me since we all work on different things.
watermelon / 14467 posts
I don't see people really picking up my slack. Yes, there are times that I can't/won't work evening events because my husband is out of town and babysitting is ridiculous for the small amount of hours, but I try to make up for it by taking on more responsibilities at our daytime events and volunteering to stay late for the nights where I know my husband will be in town.
cherry / 229 posts
I feel like I've seen men sometimes use having kids as an excuse to get out of stuff - and explicitly tell other men this is a great excuse - whereas women tend not to do so because then they would be even more likely to get "mommy-tracked." That said, the few issues I've had with people on my teams not pulling their weight have never been with parents. If people want to work less and think they can get away with it because someone will pick up the slack, they will do so and this seems pretty unrelated to their family situation.
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