I'm trying not to get overly stressed or overwhelmed right now... We are under contract to buy a condo. We knew there were some hurdles we would face along the way. One of these hurdles had to do with how much the property would appraise for since there have not been any recent sales to compare it to. DH and I were being cautiously optimistic. Well, appraisal came back LOWER than seller's asking price. Our accepted over was OVER asking price by $15K. So we're in limbo now... Seller could either: (1) stand their ground on the contract and if we can't make up the difference in price, we would have to walk or (2) come back with another number and hopefully renegotiate the price. I'm praying that #2 plays out... DH and I really want this place, even though my parents cautioned me not to let me emotions get in the way of a business decision. We were set to close on April 1 and our landlord is releasing our apartment. So if this falls through, we'll be back at square one with everything. This makes me nervous, stressed, you name it. *breathe* Anyone else been in a similar situation before?
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This stinks! Have you considered requesting a second opinion on the appraisal? If I were the seller, that's what I would do...and then I'd lower my price.
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We were set to buy a 4-unit property (we would have lived in one of the units), and the seller's wife would not move out. They were getting a divorce. This was at closing. After the first failed closing we gave them 48hrs. She was still there so we had to walk away. I was about 8wks along and not feeling too good. It was so stressful! Good luck to you guys, hope it all works out.
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I totally hear you - we just bought a house and have a clause in our agreement that appraisal shall not be lower than purchase price. My parents were adamant that we put this in and if it were to come back lower to walk away. I'm praying this doesnt happen because we love the house so much! No real advice, but my parents did say the same thing (don't get emotionally invested). Um, sorry mom and dad, too late! Lol.
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That really blows! I agree with @WinnieBee, definitely get a second appraisal! And, if there weren't any comparables, the seller should have had an appraisal done *before* listing the property (to determine if they could afford to sell the property, and to make sure that any potential buyer would be able to finance the property which usually doesn't happen when the asking is more than the appraisal).
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@winniebee: The appraisal cost $450 - we could pay $99 to have it reviewed by someone else but, truthfully, I don't think it would matter.
@char54: We have a clause in it that if it appraises for less than $X, we have the choice of walking away. The seller doesn't have the option to walk away - only thing they could do is force us to stick to the contract price ($15K over asking price and $30K over appraised price). If we can't make up the difference, we'd have to walk away.
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@MsLipGloss: It's odd that they didn't get an appraisal done before! Our broker said their broker is kinda - what's the word I'm looking for, the opposite of reactionary? Basically she doesn't consider all the "what if's" and plan B options until necessary. If we walked away, their options would be to continue renting it or re-list it, knowing all this. If someone could pay 100% cash, it wouldn't be an issue, but who knows if they'll get that. I know they're taking a loss on the place by selling too. They've listed it twice before at higher amounts.
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I'll bet the sellers are more desperate for this to go through than you are, so you could consider giving them two options: 1) Pay for a 2nd appraisal or 2) Lower the contract price to asking. They know you are able to walk away, so I think they'd at least pay for the 2nd appraisal.
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It'd be in the seller's best interest to renegotiate the price because any appraisal will come up with the same (or similar) result and no bank will lend that extra cash. Might be worth having your agent talk to their agent and remind them of this.
Buying a house is stressful enough without this added snag. I hope it turns out well for you!
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I would think that the seller would come down in price. If you contract falls through and they get another, they are going to have the same issue. You can't get a mortgage for more then the house appraises for, so they really don't have a choice.
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@Modern Daisy: @LC: That's what I'm really hoping for... The sellers have been pushing things fast this whole time. Their tenants are moving out April 1 and everything. So I'm praying that they decide to renegotiate with us. If they lower the price to asking, we'd still have to make up $15K but I think that would be doable for us. Just not $30K, LOL!
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@LindsayInNYC: $30k over appraised price is pretty steep. *augh*
@Modern Daisy: @LC: @Smurfette: I agree - definitely in the seller's best interest to come down in price.
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@LindsayInNYC: LONG post alert:
As you know, we're also going through the home buying process and our appraisal should be in a couple of weeks. I'm worried about the *exact* same thing, because the only other units sold in the same building with the same # of bedrooms was back in 2008, right after the market crash, so of COURSE they were cheaper. Right now, the market is a lot more "hot", so there's not really something accurate to compare to.
Also, since we were in a multiple-offer situation, the sellers tried to get us to put in our offer that we'd buy it in spite of the appraisal (and make up the difference in cash if it appraised for less than we offered), but we refused. But I guess the other couples who made offers refused too, because they came back and took our final offer.
But that is really worrying me about the appraisal. As far as what is a good "business decision" for you, you really can't tell, because none of us know the future of the market.
A different house we made an offer on earlier went for 25,000 over asking AND those people bought it without an appraisal clause, meaning they were willing to make up the difference in cash. I think in that particular neighborhood, unless the market crashes again, that they was a *fine* decision because the market is rapidly getting more expensive in that area of JC and they will be able to sell it for the same or more in the future, and by then the other appraisals in the neighborhood will have caught up.
When a market starts getting hot really quickly, appraisals of previous sold units don't always match the actual market value of that neighborhood. So you just have to figure out....can you afford to make up the difference in cash? Do you think the price you offered is fair for the current market and neighborhood? How badly do you want this place? Can you find something you like as well for a lower price in the same neighborhood?
You know, after you buy your unit, all the other appraisals after you will be higher...so there's that, too. On the other hand, your realtor/lawyer should point out to the sellers that if YOU couldn't get it appraised for the asking price, no one else will either. So they'd also have to start back at square 1, and hope they can find a buyer that has enough cash in the bank to pay 20% AND still have enough cash to pay the 20K to make up the difference between the offered price and the appraised price.
But it IS a tough situation. What do you think you'll do? I'm very afraid the same thing will be happening to us soon.
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@Smurfette: Correct about the mortgage. But, they could force us to either make up the difference in price out of pocket (the amount we can't get a mortgage for) or choose to walk away. And I really hope they don't go that route...
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@Anagram: We can likely afford to make up the difference between the appraised price and asking price ($15K) but NOT between appraised and offered ($30K). I think the price is fair - it's a highly desirable neighborhood which is why there are no comps available. People hardly ever move. And if we walk away, who knows when similar places will be listed. Right now there are no other 2 bed condos for sale. There are co-ops but there aren't many that are pet friendly or that don't require 50% down or something ridiculous. I need to stop myself (and DH) from playing the "what if" game until our heads spin, like we usually do. It is what it is and there's nothing we can do about it, unfortunately, but wait now... I'm praying the sellers are desperate to sell.
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@LindsayInNYC: I hope they come down. Meeting halfway at asking price seems fair. Good luck!!
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@Anagram: That's what we're hoping for! Lots of crossing fingers and praying now! Keep me posted on your situation
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this sucks. it has never happened to me, but i know a lot of people who have been through this. I think meeting them halfway sounds reasonable. and they should be willing to front the cost for another appraisal. good luck, I've got my FX for you!
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Oh no! That sucks. Keep us posted on how things pan out. Good luck!
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So, for an update... To give you a better idea of things, sellers listed their place for $299,000 (using a fake first number of 2, LOL). We were under contract at $315,000 (so $16K over). Appraisal came in at $285,000 - so $30K difference that we would have to make up since the mortgage company will only lend for 80% of appraised price. Sellers are willing to come down to $305,000 but claim that's the absolute best they can do. Funny thing is, their "absolute lowest" is still above asking price which makes NO sense! I told our attorney and broker that if they basically did asking price aka $300,000, we would have a done deal. Unfortunately, the extra $5K might be a deal breaker for us. If they don't budge, we'll have to crunch some numbers and see if we can make it work. The closing costs are all variable numbers which makes it hard to know.
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@LindsayInNYC: They are idiots. Do they really want to list the house ALL OVER AGAIN, *hope* for a 100% cash buyer (rare), or go through this entire process again with another buyer, where they get it appraised and then can't get financing?
They are seriously greedy. If you can (I know it's hard), be prepared to walk away if they can't go to asking. They are being greedy, and they should know it. Call them on their bluff and see if they realllllllly want to start all over in the selling process.
Our situation is similarly bad right now: our lawyer got back the contract from their lawyer, and he rejected most of the proposed changes to the contract-most notably a clause stating that if we reneg "willfully" from the deal, they could keep our deposits for "money lost during the time they have it on the market". our lawyer said the word "willfully" leaves too much up to interpretation--like, does that include if we can't get financing for the appraisal issue (like yours)?
So last night we drew a hard line in the sand and said we will not sign a contract with that clause in there, unless we can agree on what--specifically--the word "willfully" entails. Obviously, we should be able to get out of the contract for all of the usual reasons--inspection, appraisal, not able to get financing, etc.
Greedy, greedy idiots!
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@Anagram: We have certain contingencies in ours - one being that we can walk away if the place appraises for less than $X amount. With you contract (here comes my legal side...), it's not totally with "willful" issue but also the "money lost" - how do you/they measure that? That's a really gray area. Truthfully, if everything else covers any reason you would need to back out, that language might not be totally necessary? You're right though - it is greedy. If this falls through, their tenants are moving out. They'll have to pay a broker to list the place for rent, pay for everything while it's vacant, etc...
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@Anagram: I think that clause is meant to protect the sellers . . . let's say you decide to walk away during the due diligence period (reason doesn't matter). During that time, the property status changes in MLS (to contingent-due diligence), and thus the property is not viewed by any other potential buyers. When you walk away, not only has the seller potentially lost other buyers, but now the agents will wonder why you walked away, and it could force the sellers to have to lower their asking price, even if the reason for walking away (because nobody else knows what it was) is something as simple as not liking a paint color and not wanting to have to paint over it, or you simply got cold feet about such a big purchase. It is a cause/effect situation.
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@Anagram: We didn't quite end up meeting in the middle - sellers basically refused to budge from $X05 which was 5K over asking price. We didn't want to face things possibly falling apart so we agreed to that number. It's $20K over the appraised price but $10K below our initial offer.
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Well, I'm glad you worked it out, even if it wasn't in the middle.
Ours looks like it may fall apart, too. We haven't heard back from their lawyer, so I'm thinking that's a bad sign. But we aren't comfortable signing a clause that says they get to keep our $30,000 deposit if the contract falls apart because we 'willfully" walk away, when it doesn't even specify what that means. If our appraisal doesn't come through, they could easily keep our huge deposit, walk away, relist the house, and use our deposit money to recoup some of their losses if they have to sell for a lower price. It's just too risky. And for the reasons I talked about in my thread about the house a while ago, I don't trust the sellers at all. They just seem greedy. Boo!
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@Anagram: I'm sensing a common theme with sellers - ours seem the same! Honestly, to walk away for $5,000?! Give me a break. I think we're going to go to the closing all poor and pathetic looking, LOL. That's a bummer though... Maybe their attorney has been out or busy? I know our seller's attorney left yesterday at 2pm for the weekend (wtf?!).
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I'm glad you worked it out! Honestly, from a buying standpoint, $5000 isn't much when it comes to your mortgage.
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@Pink Champagne: And for the seller that 5 grand cash on hand can make a big difference in coming out even after all is said and done.
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@Mrs. Jacks: @Pink Champagne: but this isn't money that's in the mortgage, this is cash coming out of lindsayinnyc's pocket, because it appraised for 20k less and the bank will only give you a mortgage the $ figure the property appraises.
So...assuming the market in her neighborhood is similar to ours (or likely more), we're talking in the neighborhood of $120,000-$180,000 cash for a 20% downpayment, and another 20k on top of that for the buyer. Not everyone has an extra 20k on top of their downpayment without major financial consequences to their bank accounts, you know? If a couple has an extra 20k sitting around, why wouldn't they just put more down on the house, you know?
Just saying...I feel her position, because it is the exact same for us.
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since they accepted your offer ABOVE asking, I'm assuming there were other offers on the table? This is happening all over the place.... in hot seller markets, buyers just need to come up with the extra cash at closing. Some people I know have opted to walk with the seller not caring, b/c there were other ppl willing to pay above appraised value. I would try to talk to them, but depending on what the market situation is in that area.... they may not budge.
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With regards to the appraisal... I'm assuming this one was done by the bank? I would take a look at the appraisal report to see if the comps are in line with what you are buying and if the adjustments made to those homes' purchase price make sense. If not, argue with your loan officer to see if you can get another appraisal done. When we refinanced, the 1st appraisal came in significantly LOWER than the 2nd appraisal. I actually switched banks because of this. Not sure if you have time to switch mortgage companies, but may be worth it....
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@Anagram: It would affect the buyer if they lower the final negotiated price. I know because this happened to us last year. We opted not to lower the price because we would go into the red to do so. Instead, we got a new buyer and appraisal and what do you know, this time it appraised for significantly more.
I think LINYC did the right thing
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