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In theory yes, certain heinous crimes warrant a death penalty. In practice no. I hear too many stories of jurors who say they would have found people innocent if this or that was admitted in trial. Or the people wrongly convicted and their DNA proves their innocence years later.
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@MrsTiz: I think that say more about the homelessness problem, than the prison system.
I'm against the death penalty for many of the reasons posted. Ultimately, I don't think the state/government has that right.
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@yoursilverlining: As of October 2012 there are actually more white people than any other race on death row. I think it's pretty even racially. First picture is people on death row, second is executions since the 70's, updated this week.
@crabbabs: True, but how is prison a punishment if people in poverty actually prefer to be there than out on the streets? There is no way to flip it so that prison actually is a punishment other than lack of constant family interaction and some freedoms. You don't have to work, you get 3 meals a day, you get air/heat, television, radio, exercise equipment, cards, books, a bed, everything you need for free. The only thing they have to decide is if they want to use their commissary money for gummy bears or another pack of cigarettes. I just think that if the death penalty ever gets removed, so do all of the luxuries of prison.
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@MrsTiz: I mean, I think simply being indoors would be preferable to being on the streets. I don't think homeless people are thinking, "Hey, if I go to jail I can watch TV..." I think they're probably thinking, "If I go to jail I won't freeze to death or starve." So even if you took away any so-called "luxuries" from prisoners, I don't think that would do much to deter the homeless issue.
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@MrsTiz: here's some information on racial disparities that is from a somewhat neutral source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/us/29bar.html?_r=0 there is lots out there - part of the problem is who is even considered for the death penalty, and the race(s) of the victim/offender
And I really don't want to come off as rude, but I find your depiction of prison as a slightly confined summer camp somewhat problematic. Have you ever visited a prison? I'm asking in earnest - I have and while I can only imagine what it would be like to be in one I didn't get any sense of being carefree. (Definitely not saying that I think prisons should be like summer camp or have luxuries).
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@MrsSCB: I agree with your arguments 100%. It's also evident that the criminal justice system is riddled with racial disparities, and that needs to be addressed! There is a very real "school to prison pipeline" going on in urban public schools.
And Mrs. Tiz, there is a very real and common risk of being injured, raped or killed in prison. It's disgusting. I've done rotations in prison and juvenile detention and it was probably the scariest set of places I've ever worked. Hardly an easy life.
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@MrsTiz: but African Americans only make up a little over 12% of the population in the US; so there's a huge racial disparity if they then make up over 40% of the death row population.
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@MrsTiz: Yah @yoursilverlining: is right... your data isn't adjusted for racial percentages, and doesn't really tell the true story. Race is a huge factor in sentencing and the death penalty.
As for luxuries, prison is not a pleasant place. It's true that they have increased creature comforts as a way to decrease incidences of riot (which were widespread 20-30 years ago). But in the meantime, they've greatly increased the use of solitary confinement and overcrowding is a huge problem. Rape is a serious problem, and many prisoners are forced to join a gang just to survive.
Maybe we are talking about different prison systems though? I don't know much about what minimum security prisons are like... maybe they're more like you're describing.
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@MrsSCB: @hergreenapples your comments reminded me of an article one of my former professors shared on Facebook http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/magazine/can-forgiveness-play-a-role-in-criminal-justice.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
I briefly volunteered before we moved with a restorative justice organization that worked with teens and represented a community member in the circles. It was incredibly powerful.
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No.
As a moral argument, it falls short because I don't believe we have the right as a society to decide who lives and who dies. And it doesn't often bring comfort to victims' families. While deciding whether to abolish the death penalty in Illinois, they spoke with many victim s's families who agreed that we do not have that right, that they felt unsettled by the execution of their loved one's killer, etc.
As a legal argument -- that it acts as a deterrant for violent crime -- it falls short because it clearly doesn't prevent much.
I'm uncomfortable with instituting something like this that has any margin of error whatsoever. I'm also uncomfortable with the list of countries that use it, versus those that don't. We're not in very good company.
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@scg00387: I have indeed visited a prison, many times. I had an Uncle in prison for 8 years and my DH's Uncle worked in a prison for 20 years so my thoughts don't come without having seen and heard it firsthand.
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