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I was spanked a lot as a kid - I was even "spanked" with a belt and wire hanger a few times... none of it was effective in changing my behavior. It just made me resentful and afraid. All I learned was how to lie more effectively and how to hide things better from my parents.
I do not plan to spank my kids. I think there are far more effective ways of discipline.
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Thanks for this. I have really bad memories of being spanked frequently out of anger. It made me resentful and fearful, just as @Mrs. High Heels said. My parents were spanked, so they spanked me. I would have my arms pinned behind my back and spanked until I had red marks on my butt. I will never hit our kids, and neither will DH.
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@mrsjazz: see, that's wrong. I hate that these things are in the same category.
Being hit with objects, or chased or punched is abuse. But, the occasional spanking? My opinion is that it can be very useful.
Rarely and with good reason, after words don't work and when the child is in danger. -
@TurtleDoves: explain the in danger part to me. If you have your hand on your child enough to swat them on the bum, are they still really in danger? I'm just wondering how people operationalize such situations?
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@Mrs. Jacks: I know I had a very vivid experience as a child where I ran into the street and was almost hit by a bus (I didn't realize this at the time). I had let go of my mother's hand because some stray dogs were walking on our side of the street and I was scared. Maybe it was the look on my mother's face or the quick spank and shaking she gave me or her yelling at me but I never ran out into the street again. I was pre-school age.
ETA: I think it's to prevent the danger from happening again, for example I never ran out into the street again.
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@mrsjazz: so even after the fact, it seemed effective to you? I certainly know that a spank would be quite a jolt in such a situation, especially I you didn't realize you were doing something wrong!
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@Mrs. Jacks: I look back on it and think it was effective. I don't think my mother put much thought into it and just acted on her emotions, but I would think that weighing the risk of me running out into the street again (and being hit by a car the next time) vs. a quick spank to stop me from doing it again, she chose the one that would alter my behavior to save me.
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I am a huge fan of logical consequences. For example if he hits me, I leave. Logically people don't want to be around people who are mean. But there are some areas were the logical consequences don't make sense. For example, running out into traffic. The logical consequence is getting hit, hurt or killed. Not one I want to teach him. So a spank could be a way to get that meaning without such a horrible consequence.
The ONLY time we would spank would be in one of these situations were logical consequences are worse than the spanking. We haven't had to implement spanking yet so I don't know if we would actually do it then.
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This reminds me of a No Spanking campaign ad I've seen recently.
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@Crumbs: I don't believe in spanking, but that video wasn't spanking. Slapping a child across the face is abhorrent, and abuse. Even though I don't believe spanking is good parenting, I don't believe that it is always abusive either, unlike that video.
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@Arden: I was pretty shocked as well! It made the papers, so I'm guessing its gotten a lot of people talking. I'm not in France though, so I'm not sure if slapping is really accepted there or not. Here in Sweden, any form of spanking, even taps on the backside is considered abuse and people will report it.
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@brownie: This, completely. I'm not into the idea of spanking at all, but I do think there are some kids (in the toddler/preschool years) that reasoning does not work with, and redirection/logical consequences/etc. are not always feasible. Spanking may be (again, I'm undecided) the best way to establish the severity of certain types of disobedience, such as endangered safety.
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I can agree to this. I was spanked as a child and it has made me aggressive when my temper flares. Definitely not true for all spanked children but it is for me and my sister.
My dad was absolutely not abusive, but I had a more fearful relationship of him than a loving one because he spanked me. I feared messing up and getting spanked, therefore fell into a habit of lying to avoid it at all possible (which backfired of course). I love my dad but I feel like that has forever damaged our relationship.
DH was not spanked and never has any aggressive tendencies. I see it when our dog misbehaves...I tend to raise my hand if I don't catch myself, but he never does.
Of course not saying this is the case with ALL spanked children, my dad has a pretty tough personality anyways, but it was true for me. I will not spank my children.
BUT I would like to add, I'm a perfectly normal, adapted human being who is pretty successful and happy in life. My life wasnt ruined because of being spanked.
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@brownie: good point!
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@Mrs. High Heels: Exactly.
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I don't know... This whole running into the street so they get a spanking confuses me. Your physically punishing a child for just being a child. Of course they dont know there is traffic and such, they're curious and just run! And I understand its scary and dangerous But I just don think it warrants them being hit.
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@luckypenny: I could never do that myself, especially to an already scared toddler. I'd imagine abruptly snatching them from the street would be deterrent enough.
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For a long time I didn't think I would spank my kids... I even broke up with an ex when he said he was into spanking because I did not want the same childhood for my kids that I had... BUT I have read a lot that are similar to @brownie: point. I think if I ever spank my kids it will be far lighter than I was spank and I will make it clear to them why they were getting punished that way. I hope that never happens because there seems to be better ways to teach kids a lesson but I can definitely see there are cases (such as running into a street more than once) where it might be "needed".
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@Mrs. Jacks: right?! Or a stern "no" and explanation why it's wrong and take them straight home. Maybe a consequence such as, "we won't go outside of you can't listen and stay near mom" could be appropriate. I think it's also an age thing. Maybe these kids are too young to be walking on a busy street without handholding/being in a stroller/etc...
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My mom and I were just discussing this same topic last night. She was telling me some of the things that she has learned throughout her years of being "MOM". And she was explaining to me her views on discipline and it totally resonated with me.
Children are always weighing risk vs reward. For discipline to be effective, the risk has to be higher than the reward. Otherwise, children would be doing unacceptable/dangerous things all the time because the risk (time out/loss of privilege) is so minor. They'd rather risk a time-out than give up whatever fun thing they want to do at the time (run into the street! play with matches!). My husband and I plan on starting off with softer forms of discipline (time-outs/loss of privileges) and moving up to whatever form is necessary to keep them safe.
I will say, though, that so far we've only had to give my 3 year old a handful of time-outs. My son is a pleaser so withdrawing our attention from him just temporarily is enough. He hates it when we walk away or ignore him so most of the time, this works. We're hoping the risk of losing our attention is enough for him so that we don't have to resort to harsher forms of discipline. Who knows what will happen when he becomes a teenager though. I imagine something like loss of privileges (no car, no iphone) might work. Or maybe he'll want to please us forever?
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So this thread has sparked some introspection on my part. My initial reaction is generally to think, "spanking is fine, but it most depends on the kid and how they best respond to different forms of discipline." I was spanked as a child and thought it was normal and not that big of a deal...
But as I read through the responses on here... it made me think harder about how it might have affected me and I realized how deeply it actually did. I sometimes joke that I was spanked every day as a kid, and that's not far from the truth. I wouldn't say I was a bad or terribly naughty child, but I was extremely spirited. Quite honestly, I don't think my mother knew what to do with me. I was her third and the first two were "easy", she had me and was overwhelmed and felt it was the only thing she could do. However, I remember spending much of my childhood "fearing" my mom in a way that I am not sure is totally healthy. I also know that my mom struggled a lot with a temper, something she has worked on and apologized for. And I do respect that, but sadly she often disciplined in moments of anger and I never remember feeling a spanking was out of love and to steer me in the right direction but rather retribution.
This is so hard to reflect on because I truly believe my mom was a great mom who did her best. She is humble enough to admit mistakes and has apologized for many hurts from when I was child. I do not wish to paint her as a monster for she never was. But everyone has their vice; for my mom it was her temper.
As a result I also have a hard time controlling my strong emotions. And I hate to admit I've lashed out at my toddler when he does things that upset me. I hate hate hate hateeee that I now have that trait. I hate that I also act out in anger now and that I often feel out of control. And as a result, I don't think spanking would be the best form of discipline for myself.
My husband, on the other hand, was spanked as a child (but he was a very passive, well-behaved child), but in a more mild manner and he is very patient and calm. I think if anyone were to do the spanking, it would be him.
IF spanking is to be done, I think it must be done calmly, lovingly and with clearly explained reasons as to why. It must never be done in anger. Ever.
Whew. I have no idea where that all came from!
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@Mrs. Pen: Thanks for sharing. I know it must be hard to evolve on this kind of issue!
My upbringing was very much "break the will of the child" ala James Dobson. It didn't work so well for me. It damaged my self-esteem and made me doubt my self. It took a long time to repair what it did to me. At the time I took it in good stride and my parents said they didn't do it in anger, though that's not always how I felt.
It's complicated stuff, but I just don't want my girls to have to deal with processing those kinds of tough, negative feelings about themselves. And so far, positive discipline and time outs work very well. I cannot see needing more.
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I wasn't spanked often, but when it was it was clearly because my parents were frustrated and angry. I don't think that was effective - it just made me secretive when I was being naughty. I have a temper and I think it would be far too easy for me to fall into that trap.
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@Mrs. Jacks: I'm actually not all that familiar with his books. I've heard about him here and there from going up in a Christian home... I wouldn't say my parents ever tried to break my spirit, as they definitely nurtured it. But I also don't think my parents knew how to deal with such a strong free willed child such as myself. I was an anomaly to them, so I do not fault them for anything. I mean really though- how many parents would let their 19 year old daughter move last minute, alone, 1000 miles away to New York to live and work with a family they had never met or even spoken with! Ha.
Anyway that was a rabbit trail.. All to say I think parenting is confusing and we can all only do the best we possibly can and hope and pray our children turn out okay
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@Mrs. Pen: Ok, so he makes the distinction between "spirit" and "will" and says that you should break their will but not their spirit... but my way of thinking is that the both are completely intertwined. I was the classic strong willed child and every attempt to break that strong will had an affect on the spirit, you know?
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I was spanked as a child, mostly by my mom. She would always warn me beforehand, saying "if you do __, you'll get a spank," and then if I or my sister did whatever it was, we would get spanked later that day. Open palm only, not very hard, and only between one and three spanks depending on what it was we were being punished for. I don't remember it happening that often, and at a certain point I realized it didn't really hurt, at which point she stopped using it as a punishment rather than increase the severity.
I'm not especially attached to the idea of spanking, and I might never use it on my kids, but I'm not opposed to it either if it's done like my mom did it. -
@Mrs. Jacks: I agree.. I think they are intricately intertwined. I think free spirited children should be so celebrated, as I was! My parents told me I would do amazing things because of my spirit.
I actually dated someone who broke my spirit and I became a person who lived in a world without color... And I didn't even realize it until we broke up. I do think that free spirited children are often misidentified as naughty and uncontrollable.
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@Mrs. Pen:
That's me... uncontrollable!
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For me, I'd never want to hit my child in an angry heat of the moment. But it seems weirder to me to hit them later when I was calm and cool. For one, I think children need immediate consequences. They won't understand why mommy is hitting them for something that happened a few hours before.
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@Mrs. Pen: What you described is DH. He was full of energy and always doing something. Sometimes it was innocent, sometimes not. If he got in trouble in school-usually for v talking to much and disturbing other children, he spanked or physically punished at home. He often annoyed his mom and was punished. He just wouldn't stop.
@Mrs. Jacks: If our kids take after his personality, I am honestly at a loss to what to do. Although I have seen spanking administered in calm ways similiar to when a grounding or loss of privileges is finally decided. I am not in favor of spanking.
My mom was brutally spanked as a child. Her father used razor belts and left welts on her body. Her body was so sore to the touch and full of bruises and welts, the nuns at her school told her father he couldn't spank her anymore. She didn't spank us, instead she would ignore us if she was really upset. That was cruel. She did other I things- stern talking/ lecture, loss of toys or privileges, grounding (usually a time out in my room really) and handwriting exercises.
Ignoring a child may be effective since we all want or patents affection and attention, but that seems just as cruel as hitting. Again, what are patents supposedto do?
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I am fully confident that you'll be able to handle what comes your way without resorting to spanking. I think with spirited children (having been one) you have to pick your battles, I think. If they are mouthing off, but doing what you need them to do, maybe that's less important than if they are doing something that will be harmful to themselves in the long run.
I also think that ignoring a behavior is different than ignoring the child. Yes, a parent may withdraw attention for a few minutes so as not to reinforce a bad behavior, but it's not withdrawing love and affection from that child.
I think with all the parenting techniques we know of these days and the focus on reinforcing the good, that parents will find that they don't need to go to physical tactics. I know that I have faith in you!
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I don't think spanking had any positive effect on me either. Just made me angry and def feel a lot more aggression and be more withdrawn from my parents.
Swatting wasn't ever something that left a bad taste in my mouth though. I would sometimes get into my own little world and could tune out lots of stuff, so I was fine with having an attention grabber.
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@Mrs. Jacks: I meant did something to endanger themselves and especially after words and all other communication don't work. Example: you told them 10x not to touch the fan. You explain why the fan is dangerous. You show them a photo of what could happen. You tell them no. They do it anyways. I think I might swat them once maybe twice on the bum when I see them playing with it next time. That to me is them in danger. I don't mean to spank them as they do it without explanation. That's just dumb.
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@TurtleDoves: so explain to me why you wouldn't just move the fan? That's what we've done in our house.
That's me... uncontrollable!
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