Hellobee Boards

@lawbee11: Woke up early to listen! I was surprised to hear that the attorney had a pretty good trial strategy... I think that her execution did fall down quite a bit, probably because of her sickness.

I was surprised that Sarah Koenig didn't go into the exact nature of Gutierrez's illness... and what might have motivated her to take all those shortcuts on various cases. It sounds like she needed cash to pay for her treatments - which would be a good motive for her not to bring up the plea bargains!

Sarah seemed so so careful not to speculate though. Not sure why, unless she's saving it for a future episode!

@lawbee11: I listened and now I think I'm more interested in his lawyer than in Adnan's story!

How do you go from being a well respected trial attorney to being someone who blows Supreme Court deadlines, maybe forgets to call alibi witnesses and takes tens of thousands of dollars of clients' money to hire experts without actually hiring an expert? I'm a lawyer (guessing you are too from your user name?) and I'm so curious how she ended up with such a fall from grace.

@mrbee: I was surprised by that as well. Agree that it sounded like she needed the money for her treatments. Her voice is like nails on a chalkboard for me. I know jurors are supposed to be impartial, but I can't help but think her demeanor played a role in the conviction...almost like Jay was made into a victim or something.

@My Only Sunshine: I couldn't believe the Supreme Court deadline part. I have no idea how she got to that point. It sounds kinda like she should have stopped practicing long before that point but she was such a workaholic that she couldn't stop.

I was also shocked at the prosecutor getting a pro bono attorney for Jay. And next week's episode sounds so good, too!

Hmm hmm hmm. I just got done, I don't know what to think of it. I REALLY think he's innocent and today just seemed to rehash information we already had.

Hi all! I have been listening to Serial weekly and thought I would start chiming in. I talk weekly with my colleagues too who are avid listeners.

I would agree that I think Ms. Gutierrez's medical conditions/treatments were drastically affecting her work. I have a relative that battles MS and depending on how the severity can really be impacting her everyday life, in addition to being really expensive for treatments! I don't recall whether it was mentioned if she worked for a corporate organization or owned her own business, but if she didn't have good health insurance you would need that amount of money to pay for treatments. I think that would propel someone to keep working so they could keep the money coming in.

Definitely it was astounding to me about Jay's plea deal. Even more so how the judge just threw out the whole idea because Jay's testimony didn't seem persuaded by the arrangement. I really wish I had more criminal or litigation law knowledge to see some reason. I work in immigration law, so really not applicable in this scenario.

I am kinda glad that SK is addressing current issues. I know there are avid followers who have some compelling arguments, such as the psychopath theory, which she will address next week it looks like.

Is next week the last one? I'll be SO SAD when it's over

@lawbee11: That whole part (about the prosecutor helping with the pro bono lawyer, etc.) is insane!!

I found it interesting that Mr. S got brought up again. I just don't know ...

I also think it's interesting that Sarah K. mentioned a real time update about Adnan NOT having an appeal filed currently. I was kind of hoping at the end, we'd hear that things were moving for him (if he was indeed innocent), but it sounds like there won't be too much of a resolution.

@mrs. tictactoe: @littlejoy: @jetsa: in one of the first episodes she says she doesn't know how long it will go on, but they will keep going until they get to the bottom of it. If it's only 12 episodes, I don't see how any of it can be resolved in just 2 more episodes!

I did note today that there were many more sponsors than just mailchimp, so at least they are getting more funds!

This last episode wasn't one of the ones where I was swayed one way or the other. It was interesting but I hope she gets more into whether we should believe Adnan or not. I find a lot of the commentary on Reddit about whether he's lying to be really interesting. At this point, as much as I want him to be innocent, I don't think he is - but I do think his case was totally botched.

I was having an interesting conversation with a colleague who follows and mentioned the innocence project that is working on Adnan's case. Basically, cases like Adnan's are really hard to overturn without finding evidence of who actually did it instead. So, they are trying to pull out old evidence to get DNA sampling of like the rope, bottle in the park, etc. Maybe we might find some resolution to this case sometime in our lifetime.

@BananaPancakes: I listened to a story (different NPR show this week about serial killers. One part was defining a psychopath and why they make the leap to murder. The BTK Killer, for example, was a highly regarded member of his church and community. He WANTED to be caught (taunting police/leaving clues), but everyone thought he was normal. They tend to have almost an OCD of "perfection" until they snap. So, applying this here, what if he is a psychopath?? It would explain his lack of extreme emotion surrounding his situation, and the nearly spotless prison record.

I actually don't know if I think he's guilty, so the above is just some thinking out loud!

@My Only Sunshine: @CRGmama: @mrs.gm: @charlotte: @fussygal: Her voice reminds me of Nancy Grace's. I re-listened to the episode over the weekend and had to mute it during the really long part where CG is talking...I just couldn't take it!

Sarah Koenig is going to be on the Colbert Report on Wednesday, so that's pretty exciting! I'll definitely be watching.

@littlejoy: That sounds similar to the List murders. The father killed his family, stopped mail, etc. to escape for decades. He thought that he was doing them a favor. His jail interviews are chilling about how he lived his life on the outside before being caught by America's Most Wanted with a portraiture bust. He sounded so sane and reasonable during those interviews despite the severity of his crimes. Crazy.

**Spoiler Alert**

Okay, these aren't really spoilers, since it's all hearsay, I guess. But I read the Reddit thread and Rabia's blog with the documents.....and I now I'm back in the "Adnan did it" camp.

There's no doubt that Jay is a liar. As to what actually happened between school hours and going to Cathy's house that night--I don't know that we'll ever know. I do think that Jen has always known more than she has let on, and Jay and Jen just conspired to spin a story where she is not involved at all, and Jay appears more innocent than he probably was. But...there was a thread some time back about Adnan growing up, where a school/mosque friend posted that he used to rifle through the coats hung at the mosque to steal money, and they he would steal from the collection box and that he frequent prostitutes and talked about getting away with murder.

Meanwhile, Jay knew exactly where Hae's car was and where her body was found (I read on a document somewhere, maybe Rabia's page?) that he was able to tell police (after her body was recovered, but before the site was public knowledge) where her body was. So either Jay did it alone and someone framed Adnan...Or he was "along for the ride" (sort of as he claims, but likely he was more involved with the body disposal that he claims) with Adnan after Adnan did it.

When you have a guy who seems to lack typical morals and impulse control (this is the weed-smoking, money stealing, prostitute frequenting, possibly involved in drug drealing Adnan)...I'm starting to think it's more and more possible that he *could* be a charming psychopath.

The only things that don't add up are why he would call the detective the night that Hae's body is found. I think the police were just way off with their cell phone timeline of calls and how quickly Hae would have had to be killed.

I'm really surprised that Jay and Jen were never charged as accessories to this murder, since it's clear that they both knew and didn't go to the police.

@Anagram: I thought Jay was charged? And that that was why he needed the pro bono defense attorney...

I've been sucked into the wormhole. I read this and thought it made a lot of sense. Excuse the poor writing and language. http://josephkahn.tumblr.com/post/104768051478/i-solved-the-serial-podcast

@mrbee: ahhh! just saw this. I meant convicted, not charged. He didn't even go to trial, right?

New to this thread, and to the podcast, but OMG. OBSESSED. So good!!

That 18 page letter explained so much to me!! I had wondered why he was so dispassionate and it did trigger some skepticism. But the letter explained things to my satisfaction.

Wonder how the series will end??