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People without health insurance

  1. mrsbubbletea

    nectarine / 2821 posts

    @arosebyany: I am an atheist too, I more meant other conservatives who are religious. And I hope you did use up all your bad luck! By the way, you definitely aren't the only one who feels that way on hellobee. People often post similar views, but it does appear to be the minority here.

  2. TemperanceBrennan

    pear / 1998 posts

    @arosebyany: I'm sorry your life experiences have caused you to have that outlook on life. I imagine it feels very lonely and scary to feel that way about people.

  3. gingerbebe

    cantaloupe / 6131 posts

    I think at the end of the day, most people don't care about politics, no matter what they say - they are just self-interested.

    I know a lot of people who choose not to be insured because they don't want the government to tell them what to do with their money and its their choice whether or not they have insurance and they claim to be conservatives, whatever. But then surprise, when they have a catastrophic health situation they jump on Medicaid with no qualms or they freak out about their bills and ask their friends and family for money. So they're not for handouts and tax-payer funded services until they are in dire straights, and then its the government's fault for allowing a healthcare system that forces them to go bankrupt or whatever.

    Alternatively, I know young people who are super liberals and say everything is a human right and we should all pay into the system, etc. until they hit their 30s, have kids, and actually start making some money and realize oh crap all these government services cost me a ton in taxes and this sucks.

    Philosophically, this all works if people live their politics. If you're a conservative and you really just feel like its not the government's job to tell you what to do with your money and you will really and truly live those beliefs and deal with the consequences of not having health insurance by then not burdening the system, fine. If you're really a liberal and you're really down with paying a lot in taxes so that everyone can have the safety net services you think are essential and a right for all, then pay the taxes. But people rarely live their principles to the bone like that. I live in CA, and I can't tell you the number of super liberal old people who voted for all these government programs when they were younger and then mysteriously retire to Oregon or Arizona or Nevada where the tax structure is favorable to them. And I don't know any of my conservative relatives not go on without a peep Medicare when they get older.

    For better or for worse, Americans have a sense of exceptionalism, so the idea of a government healthcare system that everyone has equal access to bothers a lot of folks at that core level. As you see from the posters here, the opinions against a single payer system range from I don't want to give up my healthcare choices to the government even if its wildly expensive to I just don't feel like funding other people's care.

    I think a great example is that terminally ill child from Britain. The NHS has determined that child cannot be saved and so they want to pull him off life support, while the parents wanted him flown to the US for experimental treatments. The court in Britain agreed with the NHS and said that they could remove the life support. Their specific hospital agreed to extend support for a little while longer so the parents could say goodbye. This story has become wildly popular in America and even Trump has gotten involved because here in America, the idea that the government would pull someone off life support is appalling to most people. We have the same issues here with HMOs, so its not like we don't deal with this too, but I've heard so many people rail about THOSE CRAZY SOCIALIST COUNTRIES PUTTING PEOPLE TO DEATH BC THEY DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER THEIR HEALTHCARE yada yada.

    So, yeah, I think the issue is cultural more than anything else. I don't think health insurance companies are to blame - they reflect the marketplace and Americans choose to have this weird broken system where they complain about the high costs but don't want to let go of their individual rights and choices to the government even if chances are, in most people's situations, it would be a non-issue.

    FWIW, my husband was in the military and then used the VA health system for several years after retirement and it was horrendous, if we're looking at a purely government-led healthcare system. Like, awful. On the other hand, I also went without health insurance for most of my life until I was 22 because my parents couldn't afford it and I spent most of my 20s dealing with a lot of delayed health maintenance because of things that weren't addressed in my youth. And then I ended up with a freak brain tumor at 31 - the bill for which was over $1 million but I paid nothing with my health insurance because I had great coverage. And then I ended up with 1 high risk NICU stay pregnancy and 1 AMA pregnancy each with C-sections, again totally covered by my health insurance. A lot of why I'm staying at my current job is because the health insurance is so excellent and I will not allow my kids to go without coverage like I did growing up and then deal with all these issues later. So, I don't really have an opinion on what our healthcare system should look like, but I do know that government care did not work for us and my private health insurance has saved my life and my kids' lives. That doesn't mean I couldn't receive wonderful care in other countries (my family has in the past), but I just don't think those systems would translate HERE because Americans are weird.

    As an aside, I do like marketplaces in general because I think we should uncouple health benefits from employment. I don't think it should be a reason people stay at their jobs and I think our economy now is not based on one longterm job until retirement - people are more into gigs and side hustles and jumping from opportunity to opportunity. I think if they don't have to worry about having health insurance coverage when making job decisions, we will see a more robust and entrepreneurial economy overall that is more dynamic and successful.

  4. arosebyany

    clementine / 955 posts

    @mrsbubbletea: I realize now how harsh what I said sounded, but I get really worked up knowning how hard my husband works for what we have. I also live in an area where people ALWAYS game the system. When my SIL was pregnant with her first, she claimed her boyfriend left her and that she lived with her mother (who wrote a note stateing that fact) and that she had no income, so that she could get on Medicaid to cover her doctors and stuff for the pregnancy. Meanwhile she was in fact living either said Boyfriend who made 100+ a year. Thier married now and to this day they've never paid anything back as far as I'm aware. That's not even the only story I know off the top of my head, it just makes me lose my faith in humanity

  5. 2littlepumpkins

    grapefruit / 4455 posts

    @ShootingStar: agreed. I've been there too. Plus there's just the stuff that comes with old age. But I'm just saying I do think it would help.

  6. Truth Bombs

    grapefruit / 4321 posts

    @oscarthegoon: et al (I can't reply to more than one of you now that we are on a second page): I fully admit I don't have personal experience with the Canadian Health Care system. My experience is mainly through HB. But there have been numerous times on this board where someone is having bleeding, or some other pregnancy complication and we all say "go get an ultrasound" and the response is "well, I'm in Canada and it'll be two weeks until they can get me in" or someone is having a chronic health issue with their child and we ask what the pediatrician says and the response is "well, I'm in England so we don't have a pediatrician but the Health Visitor seemed to think it was fine". That's not what I want for myself, and certainly not what I want to pay a 50% tax rate for. I think the US system is broken, I just don't think Universal Health Care is the answer. And in case you think I'm a monster, I'm vehemently opposed to the GOP health care bill despite the fact that it would result in a nice tax break for my family. I don't believe in a "fix" that results in lost insurance for 20 million people, but I also don't believe in a "fix" that results in me paying higher taxes for what I see as inferior care. I want more choice, and believe I'm entitled to some control over my own health care. And while not as strongly as the previous poster I also take issue with the "certainly you can afford to put more in to the pot". I already put more into the pot than those less fortunate than me, a lot more. And it can be really hard to feel like you're financially supporting choices you don't agree with. My husband and I stopped at 2 children largely for financial reasons. I personally feel that it is my duty as a parent to give my child everything they need in life and to ME that includes a college education attained at no debt to them. So we are planning and saving for that scenario, and that's not cheap. Then you see people like the woman in the original poster's example who is a SAHM with 3 kids who are on Medicaid and she chooses to risk having no coverage for herself. I don't believe any innocent child should be uncovered for health care, because they have no choice or control over their situation, but I also find myself thinking, what in the world is a woman on Medicaid doing having 3 freaking kids?!? And there are people on here who post things like that they are already pregnant with their 3rd kid and are just now realizing they can't afford 3 in day care without dipping into savings, or they can't afford what I see as a nominal dollar amount per month so their kid can go to preschool and get some socialization and education ahead of Kindergarten, or they hold off on doctor's appointments for their children because they don't want to pay the co pay. These types of things make me CRAZY. Being forced to pay higher taxes to support choices I don't agree with can be a tough pill to swallow. That's why the Bernie Sanders plan of free health insurance and higher education for everyone is not for me, because it's results in me financially supporting people who I feel make irresponsible financial choices.

  7. arosebyany

    clementine / 955 posts

    @Truth Bombs: amen

  8. Littlebit7

    nectarine / 2243 posts

    @ShootingStar: um...wut?? I think you took more than a little creative license there by trying to sum up our contribution to this thread as: we are "expect(ing) all health problems are in some way attributable to a person's actions and they therefore deserve to get sick"
    When in fact we implied nothing of the sort. I mentioned nothing about anyone deserving to be sick. That's a pretty bold claim, and pretty far off base too from what was originally written by myself or @2littlepumpkins

  9. DesertDreams88

    grapefruit / 4356 posts

    @Truth Bombs: actually the SAHM I was referring to, adopted two of those kids from foster care, so they get Medicaid that way and I didn't want to complicate my original post with that info. But,if they were her bio children, they'd still qualify for Medicaid due to income.

    And I know several other women that choose to SAHM bc they believe they "should", but their husbands don't make enough, so they are on WIC and Head Start for the older kids. I don't know their insurance status, though.

  10. DesertDreams88

    grapefruit / 4356 posts

    This comment has been deleted by the original poster.

  11. mrsbookworm

    pear / 1823 posts

    I generally find the people who don't approve of universal health care are the people who have no experience with it. They base their opinions on hearsay rather than fact or statistics. I lived in the US most of my life and currently live in Europe. Universal healthcare is wonderful, in my opinion. We've never waited to see a doctor, be it for a regular exam, a child's illness or an emergency. There's a lot less red tape and the quality of care is on par with the US. Everyone deserves health care.

  12. erinbaderin

    pomelo / 5533 posts

    @Truth Bombs: I think you have a pretty inaccurate understanding of our health care system (which I'm not saying is perfect but which I definitely think is better than the US system). I experienced bleeding in my pregnancy twice. The first time I went to my family doctor that day and she gave me a referral for an ultrasound the next day. The other time I went to the ER and while it took 5 hours, I got an ultrasound that day. I'm not sure what instances you're referring to but when a Canadian has a medical situation if their family doctor can't get them in quickly they either go to a walk-in or an ER, depending on how urgent they think it is. I can't think of any reason anybody would ever have to wait two weeks for an ultrasound if they were experiencing complications in pregnancy.

    You're right that my kids don't have a pediatrician, they see the same family doctor we see. When my second child was a baby he had a hydrocele that our doctor was questioning, so she referred us to a pediatrician. We got an appointment within a week.

    There can definitely be long waiting lists for non-urgent conditions, but that's a price I will happily pay for not having to go bankrupt over an urgent condition.


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