So, I have decided that I give up. Tomorrow I'm calling a sleep person to come and tell me how to get my child to sleep. At all. Because 2 hour stretches with hour and a half awake periods in between is not working for us. My DH and I aren't on the same page about how to do things and both of us feels critisized if we tell the other person how we think it should be done.
I'm tired and mad and jealous and I'm just done.
Blah.
Has anyone used a sleep consultant? Please share your experience?
grapefruit / 4717 posts
It's so hard! Hopefully a sleep consultant can work some magic. Fingers crossed.
pear / 1609 posts
So sorry 
I dealt with this until LO was 9 months. He woke up every hour or two. It's so hard. I was the only one doing the night wakings and it really wears you down. DH and I weren't on the same page as how to do things either. Then at 9 months, he went out of town for a week and I took matters into my own hands. That way we couldn't fight about it.
Good luck!
pineapple / 12802 posts
@MamaJ: yea, I do night time and nap time by myself too. Sometimes DH will try to help but I just end up being so frustrated with how he does it that if force him away. Then I get mad when he does offer to help. Vicious cycle.
nectarine / 2994 posts
Oh I'm sorry mama! Hope this helps you all get some more sleep, sleep issues are no fun!
honeydew / 7917 posts
So sorry you're going through this. While I don't have any experience with a consultant, I think you made a great decision to help your LO's sleep. Wishing you the best!
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts
I'm about two days away from hiring one myself. Jojogirl did two private sleep consults from Isis- it's over the phone and you send then a bunch of info ahead of time so you make the most of your 50 minutes.
As I type Dh is in the living room with a screaming inconsolable baby. We gave her Tylenol because it just seems like something must be wrong. It's awful. I hope your babe can sort this out. If you have time Isis has lots if sleep webinars recorded and available on their website. I watched several hours worth today and clearly, not much help. But maybe it could help you?
persimmon / 1339 posts
I have no personal experience with this but there is a service in Australia called Tresilian that offers sleep consultation services in varying degree of ... seriousness I guess? You can have phone consultations, in person consultations, overnight visits at your house, or at the most extreme you can go stay at their facility with your child for up to 5 nights. I have several friends who have used them to varying degrees and apparently it is life-changing. I am so happy that this service exists and that there is no stigma attached to using it here, because I just know I'm going to pay for me easy pregnancy with a terrible sleeper!! Plus I was a sleep demon for my parents so karma dictates I'll suffer as well.
Good luck - go ahead with the consultant and hopefully you and your husband can come to an agreement based on the experts advice. Hugs!
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts
@.twist.: btw jojogirl posted to my wall about her experience- you should be able to see it there.
grapefruit / 4291 posts
I had a sleep consultation with the New Zealand "Baby Whisperer" Sharlene Poole when Miss A was 6.5 months old and stopped sleeping. For us it was a combination of teething, wonder week and learning to crawl / pull up that affected our sleep.
A was an early mover and teether and Sharlene said that 95% of the consults she does are for babies like mine who are very physically and mentally active. LO had previously been a good self-settler and had slept through the night a handful of times.
The recommendations for us were to establish a more structured routine (consistent wake up and nap times), more solids, more activity (both physically and mentally) to wear A out so she was tired enough to sleep.
Personally I believe that a good sleep consultant will give you options other than CIO or methods that will distress either you or your baby but it can definitely be helpful to get some objective and experienced advice.
You could also check out http://www.thesleepstore.co.nz/ which is a NZ website but has some really great info about infant sleep and different ways to deal with it (or the lack thereof!)
wonderful olive / 19353 posts
Oh honey, I'm right there with you! We're going on week 2 of crazy non-existent/barely any sleep. Not sure how I'm still functioning as a human, but I totally woke up DH last night and passed DS off to him for an hour so that I could just sleep! He's been sleeping in a different room and not even aware of what's going on! Ugh!
How's L during the day? or his naps?
papaya / 10473 posts
Hugs, friend! We are in the same boat. We'll have a few good days, then BAM. Right back to up all night. Blarghhh.
I know JoJoGirl used a sleep consultant, so I hope she chimes in. One thing that helped me and DH - we chose a sleep book, and decided come hell or high water, we were both sticking to THAT method for 3-4 weeks, until it worked or we determined it didn't work. That way we stop fighting in the middle of the night about how to do things! We are using the No Cry Sleep Solution book, and it has actually helped. We're not there yet, but we do see improvement.
cantaloupe / 6206 posts
Okay.
I would very much recommend them. Before the first one, I should have watched all the free webinars on sleep on the Isis website as we wasted a lot of precious time ($) with her giving me ideas of basic concepts that are already posted for free. They know a LOT about sleep and can help you decide for yourself which interventions to try. The second one was more helpful as I knew all about "gentle night weaning" (ie reducing feeds by a minute every night) and CIO with intervals, but didn't know which, if either, to use on our wakings. She helped me parse that out, and we decided CIO for the first waking if it was before a certain time, and weaning for the second waking. Now if she wakes up before 2am, we let her cry, and since the first night a few weeks ago she's only woken up twice - and cried for 6 minutes each time. Totally manageable. She gets up again at 4-5am and I feed her, then usually goes back to sleep til 7am. Much better than before the consult where she was up at 12-1, and again at 4-5 and then never going back to sleep. Since she's going 10 hrs without a meal, I don't feel like I need to wean her off the 2nd feeding yet (she's 6 months), but I will when I/my pedi think it's the right time.
I'd totally recommend it, there are too many resources and options to parse through when you're totally sleep deprived, frustrated, and desperate.
EtA: You are NOT giving up, you are seeking help! When your teeth get dirty and you go get them cleaned, is that giving up!? No.... experts are there for a reason 
pomelo / 5326 posts
I have no wisdom to share, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you are going through this
GOLD / cantaloupe / 6581 posts
@.twist.: Good luck today! I'll send you an email here in a bit but I'm thinking of you!
pineapple / 12802 posts
@Foodnerd81: thanks! I'm going to check out the webinars. Are they an American company? (The website isn't working properly on my iPad). There is a sleep consultant in our area that seems reasonable though.
@ScarletBegonia: thanks! That sounds like the one I found in our area. Very similar structure. I just wish they weren't so expensive! Haha
@Kemma: thanks for the website! I have been trying a more structured routine for the last week, but maybe not enough?
@Alivoo01: he was napping a lot in the swing until about a week ago when I decided he needed to learn to sleep in his crib. I can pretty much predict when he needs to go down, but the length of his naps vary greatly. Yesterday he took 3 40 minute naps. This morning he took a 28 minute nap and although he fell asleep nursing afterwards, he is now refusing to go back to sleep.... We were also up ever.single.hour. Last night. I'm so sorry you guys are going through this too. It's awful.
@JoJoGirl: thanks for all your help. I just feel so defeated. I have always been good with kids, babies in particular, so I feel like a huge failure that I can't even help my baby go to sleep.... It's so depressing.
Thanks everyone for your support. It means a lot.
hostess / watermelon / 14932 posts
mommy shorts used a sleep consultant for her younger daughter!
cantaloupe / 6206 posts
@.twist.: DO NOT FEEL LIKE A FAILURE. If there's one thing I've learned from all of this, our 'influence' on their sleep is much less important than we'd like to think. As my coworker/former LC says, "it's all in their noggins". I have a friend whose first kid was a phenomenal sleeper, STTN at 6 weeks etc and she felt all cocky going into her second kid (her words, not mine), who didn't STTN til a year. Yes, there are interventions to make things *better*, but seriously... their ability sleep is going to vary as much as their personality. Do not take it personally. Do what you CAN, ie an intervention, and then do NOT judge yourself for what happens next. 
pineapple / 12802 posts
So, for anyone following along, this is what I ended up doing.
One of my cousins heard that we were having sleep issues and directed me to a local sleep consultant that helped her out immensely. She bought a condensed version of this woman's sleep seminar for babies which only costs $30. I figured I would spend the $30 dollars and if it worked great and if not I'd go spend $400 on a sleep consultation and personalized sleep plan. But what is $30 dollar in the grand scheme of things when my alternate is $400??
The video was 30 minutes long and only available for 48 hours. I watched it and took notes. Haha.
She does the extinction method. L is on the younger end of her requirements, but he does meet them.
Basically, you do bedtime and naps all together and there's no f-in around. You decide what your bedtime/nap time routine is and stick to it. No monitor. However, I had my monitor with me, I just didn't have the volume on. I still needed to see him though.
Our bedtime routine is:
6:16 - feed
6:25 - bath
6:35 - lotion/diaper/Jammies/swaddle
6:45 - short story (she suggest very short!)
6:50 - 7:00 - place in crib, say loving phrase and shut the door.
Nap time is exactly the same without a bath/lotion and the phrase is a little different.
Once i put him down I left him and when into the living room and started reading. He cried for and hour and then fell asleep and I thought magic shit happened. I really wasn't so lucky though. He woke up a half hour later and cried for another hour. Fell asleep, slept for an hour, woke up, cried, fell asleep, rinse, repeat, all night.
I'm a ball of nerves today and feel so badly. I know it is for everyone's happiness in our house, and I'm just hoping tonight goes easier.
I just put him down for his first nap of the day. He cried for about a minute and then fell asleep. He will be in his crib for 2 hours, awake or not (I will see how this goes).
My only regret is that, because I knew he needed to self sooth, I ditched the swaddle all together last night. I am kicking myself now because I should have just swaddled, arms out. I don't know why didn't think of that because now, not only am I sleep training, but also swaddle weaning. Which I think maybe made last night worse.
/end novel.
cantaloupe / 6206 posts
@.twist.: WHOA - I haven't even read to the end of your post yet, but Isis sleep consults are $129 for an hour! $400?!
ETA: Okay got to the end. Holy sh!tballs that sounds horrible. I am SO sorry. I agree though about swaddle-weaning being a big leap too, and may have had something to do with the night being so tough. I have one word for you: LOVEY. I am not kidding, this thing changed my life. Do you have the kind that's a super soft square of fabric with a stuffed animal attached? Everyone told me after the fact you never swaddle-wean without introducing a lovey at the same time - they need a trade-off comfort object, and the swaddle is both a constrictor of their startle reflex AND a comfort object within itself. It took us around a week after swaddle-weaning to learn this (ie don't feel bad about not doing it last night) and her sleep changed a TON just from that one change. Do you have one on-hand?
Hopefully his nap today is an indication that things will go better tonight.. sending you hugs...
pineapple / 12802 posts
@JoJoGirl: I know. Totally ridic, right?! And that seems to be the norm, I checked out a few places!
GOLD / wonderful coconut / 33402 posts
@.twist.: Hugs!! Sleep training is so hard I agree the lovey seems to really be comforting to R. She had an A&A security blanket but didn't seem to care about it. She will drag the lovey with her to the other side of the crib much more then the A&A blanket.
pineapple / 12802 posts
@JoJoGirl: I could possibly? I couldn't get their website to work on my iPad so I'm going to have to dust off the old laptop if I need their help.
He does have an angel dear owl? One of those? I was hesitant to give it to him because of all the "don't put anything in the crib with them" rule. For his nap I did swaddle from chest down. He's currently awake and crying after a 40 minute nap, but I know that isn't long enough. He has been sucking on his fists for comfort. I have no problem giving him the owl but I was just unsure/hesitant about that rule.
pineapple / 12802 posts
@Smurfette: thank you. It's so hard watching him be so upset. I just feel like he's still so young. Even though he meets all the requirements to do the extinction method, I have a hard time finding other stories of babies this age and that makes me feel like a bad human. Even though I've tried everything else.
cantaloupe / 6206 posts
@.twist.: I struggled with this too, talked to our daycare provider about it, etc. Ultimately yes, the rule is nothing in their crib until a year. For me, when LO was unswaddled, could roll, had great head/neck control, and the dexterity to pull things on and off of her own face, *I* felt comfortable enough that a lovey wouldn't suffocate her. I wouldn't have done it while she was swaddled and couldn't pull something off her face. But it depends on what you feel comfortable with. The first night we gave it to her, she fell asleep with it literally snuggled under her cheek.
pineapple / 12802 posts
@JoJoGirl: he CAN roll over, but he has only done it once on his own. I may wait a few more days, see how he does. I am trying to get him to roll over more each day. He's stubborn.
And he's asleep again, yay!
GOLD / wonderful coconut / 33402 posts
@.twist.: I was nervous about giving her something as well. But she sleeps on her stomach every night, so I figure that has to be worse, right? If you aren't comfortable with it, try it at naps first, since that is a shorted time frame and you are up and can check on him the whole time.
Hearing R cry during training, (we had to do it twice) was so hard but SO worth it. She is STTN now and a much happier baby cause she isn't tired all the time.
pineapple / 12802 posts
@Smurfette: that's a good idea, I will try that at his next nap. I've also tried putting him on his tummy, but that just seems to piss him off more. Haha
papaya / 10570 posts
@.twist.: Oh wow, your post is like a horror story. Big, big hugs. Swaddle weaning was the WORST! That first night (the second time we tried), DH kept saying "just get the swaddle!". There was a point I really thought we were going to have to, as well!! But we persevered though and she sleeps without it now. E didn't take to a lovey - I think she is still too young to hold onto something consistently - but we use the sleepsuits with fold over hand mits and she rubs her soft, covered hands all over her face.
cantaloupe / 6206 posts
@.twist.: I don't think rolling over is as important as handing hands free and good neck control!
GOLD / watermelon / 14076 posts
@.twist.: **Hugs** You're doing great! It sounds like L is making progress, too. How long did he cry after his 40-min nap before he fell asleep again? M takes 40-45 min naps like it's her job, so she's taking 5 naps a day. And she wakes up crying (whereas in the morning she wakes up smiley and happy). She also yawns and rubs her eyes soon after waking, so I know she is still tired!
pineapple / 12802 posts
@lawbee11: hm I'd say he cried for about 10 mins. Lately he's only been having 3 40 minute naps a day! It's insane! He does the same with his hands and rubbing. I just wish he could get past that sleep transition period during his naps. He really struggles with that unless he's in a swing...
@Cherrybee: I wonder if I put little mitts on him, if he would do the same? Haha
@JoJoGirl: ah! That is reassuring, I will try the lovey at his next nap!
Thank you all so much for your words of support. I really need them. I'm hating life right now! Haha
papaya / 10570 posts
@.twist.: I honestly don't know if this is a good suggestion or a terrible one but when E was doing the crap-nap thing (who am I kidding, she has only been doing good naps for one day!!), I put her down more frequently - always after an hour of awake time or less if she looked tired. Would this help L to at least get a little more sleep, perhaps?
grapefruit / 4187 posts
Oh Twist, hang in there! We are going through sleep issues too. If there's anything I've learned through my extensive research and talking to his Dr., no two babies are alike and there is no universal cure. Through trial and error I have learned to listen to my baby, but also know when to put my foot down. We are still working on things..
Our biggest challenge right now is getting him to go back down in the first place or for long enough after his 4-5am wakeup. He really wants to get up for the day at that time and it just isn't working for us. We can't function on that little sleep and I have almost dropped him a few times from being so sleep deprived. Our Dr. told us it's okay to skip that feeding in general (she told us this when he was only 7 weeks old and he is now 11 weeks), but we haven't gone there yet. I have left him in his crib screaming though when he wouldn't go back down after this feeding. There's a point when you just need to get some sleep and force the issue if nothing else is working.
So to me it sounds like your baby needs some tough love as long as everything else is fine like his weight and overall health, etc. which I am assuming it is from your post. If there are no medical issues, then he might just not be sleeping because he doesn't know that's what he's supposed to be doing, you know?
pineapple / 12526 posts
@.twist.: I started letting C sleep with her lovey when we swaddle weaned at 6 months. It was one of those ones that is a little blanket with an animal attached. After a month or so, I let her sleep with an AA blanket.
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
Extinction method as in, you put them in the crib, shut the door and don't go in again until the next morning? I got looped into one of those seminars by Moms on Call. Worst thing ever.
Sorry you're going through this.
pineapple / 12802 posts
@looch: yes. Honestly, I've tried no cry sleep solutions, I've tried bed sharing, I've tried pu/pd, I've tried CIO with intervals. Nothing has worked. This method worked wonders for my cousin, it's a last resort, obviously. This wasn't something I was looped into doing, I actively searched it out. I'm sorry it was the worst thing ever for you, but I'm at the end of my rope.
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
@.twist.: Maybe I misread, but it doesn't seem like you're happy with it, or maybe you are?
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