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@looch: I'm completely sleep deprived, emotional, and have done only one night of this so far. I am not in any place to make a decision about it yet. Of course it's hard seeing my baby cry for an hour, hopefully tonight will be better.
If you have any suggestions of what could work better for me, that I haven't already done, I would be happy to hear them.
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@twist-- just wanted to give you my support- this part of parenting sucks!
We used the Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child book and it was so hard, but so worth it! What helped me was journaling the whole process so that I could see the improvements and monitor the times. And put some humor in it. And track my wine consumption!
Luckily, it didn' t take too long (about a week).
Sleep is so important and I believe self-soothing is a learned skill so I would always try to remember that I was helping my baby by letting him learn to fall asleep on his own,
Be consistant-- I think that's why the methods and routines work so well. You'll feel like caving (just this once ) but if you are consistant, hopefully it will get much better!
My son was 5 months when we sleep trained and now he is 27 months and (I should not put this is writing) he is an amazing sleeper and napper. Of course there are early wake-ups or a bad night, but I expect that for a little guy.
Good luck!! -
@.twist.: I'm sorry you are struggling. We have been dealing with some sleep training too, and its tough. I agree that consistency is key. We are not night weaning yet, because I think my 6.5 month old still needs to eat at night. She has been consuming a lot of her calories at night, and I figure it will take time to shift that to the day. But we did want her to put herself to sleep, so we started with just sleep training for the beginning of the night. We found that if we stayed in the room with her (we use a co-sleeper, so we would lie next to her on the bed) she never became escalated. She fussed fora bout 45 minutes the first night, then slept for maybe an hour, hour and a half? When she woke, we went back in and laid down again. After a few nights she could put herself to sleep with out any fussing. After a week of that, we started having her put herself to sleep without us in the room. Because she already could do it, it really only took 15 minutes of crying. Two nights ago we had a rough night, I think because she wasn't quite tired enough. I'm nap training at the same time and the key there has been being right on with the timing- too early or too late and she cries.
Anyway. Do what feels right for you and your family. I understand getting to the place of absolutely needing to make a change. I was feeling angry and resentful during the day because I was tired and had no time to myself. Now that she is sleeping even marginally better I am more able to play with her, get things done, feel human. I'm a better mom now- and a little crying/fussing was worth it.
You know your baby best. I knew our daughter was ready to figure out how to put herself to sleep. But have reasonable expectations, too. Its a lot to ask a baby to go from doing things one way to doing things a completely different way. Anyway. I am rambling. I felt frustrated by the lack of middle ground when it comes to conversations about sleep training- either you CIO or you don't. But nothing ever acknowledged how desperately I needed sleep! You don't have to follow a book or a plan- you can figure out what makes sense for you and your baby, so that you can both be happier and more well rested.Try to take a nap today if you can! And trust me, it gets better.
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@.twist.: If you're worried about breathability, the aden/anais security blankets are super breatheable, that is what we started with when LO was 4ish months if I remember correctly. We aren't a CIO family so I can't comment to that, but I will say that my LO has maybe taken 5 2 hours naps in his life (regardless of location; swing, on a person, in the carseat, in his crib). Some kids just don't nap that long, no matter what. He puts himself to sleep happily and wakes up happily, and I could leave him in there until the cows come home but once he is up, he's up
But, I hope yours does and I hope it gets better fast. That sounds truly torturous! Maybe get some ear plugs.ETA- I think @tysonja has talked about young sleep training.. not sure how old your LO is. You could wall her.
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@.twist.: I've been where you are, multiple times. The biggest thing that helped me wasn't in a book or a method...it was acceptance that my son simply wasn't textbook in terms of sleep. I do believe sleep begets sleep, but for my son, it was daytime naps that helped us with the night sessions.
One thing I found super helpful was a schedule that dictated awake/sleep times by age. I was missing my son's sleep cues in the beginning and keeping him awake much longer than he should have been...do you have some guidelines? I can try to find the sheet for you if you don't.
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@.twist.: I'm so sorry you're having a tough time. I don't think we got even a 3 hour stretch until 3.5 months and he didn't STTN until 10. 5 months, so I feel for you. No words of wisdom; I've blocked that part of my life from my brain.
Hope things work out soon!
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@looch: the best thing I ever did for my own mental health was to accept that A just isn't "that kid" in terms of sleep. I honestly believe that stressing about her sleep was actually worse than her sleep "issues" and letting it go made me feel so much better.
@.twist.: with regards to the waking after 40 minutes / one hour thing, have you tried going in and comforting / patting / slightly rousing your LO just before they would normally wake? It sounds like your LO just needs to string together a couple of sleep cycles!
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@.twist.: I just saw that you asked about Isis-- yes, US company, and no, their website doesn't work on the ipad/iphone for some reason.
How is it going tonight? We are trying some gentle sleep training here (C is only 3 months so we can't CIO yet)-- basically a few PU/PD before rocking her to sleep anyway, but we separated nursing. We also took her arms out of the swaddle-- she woke up a bunch of times in the beginning, then I finally fed her at midnight and rocked her back, but here is the most exciting part-- she woke at 3, fussed for a few minutes, stuck her hand in her mouth, and went back to sleep! I'm sure it was a one off, but it was much better than the last few nights.
Hope tonight is going better. Hang in there. It will get better, I'm sure!
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So sorry friend! I wish I could give my fellow mom of a crap sleeper a hug, because we're there too!
Have you heard of the book No Cry Sleep Solution? Several HB moms recommended it to me, and it has helped us tremendously. We are getting perfect naps out of C now, and we still get up 2-3 times a night, but two are to eat. It's been a lifesaver!
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@grizz: My copy is on its way. I ordered it from a cheap used book shop and the shipping is so slow!
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@RLCeigh: thanks! It really does suck, but things seem to be getting better.
@Silva: that's where I was too. I was angry and resentful and lacked any patience. Which isn't fair to anyone in the family.
@scg00387: thanks! L is great at taking 2 - 3 hour naps.... On me. Haha which wasn't working for me. CIO wasn't my first option, although, I've never been against it. I did exhaust a lot of other options before coming to this method. A week of every hour wake ups and 40 minute naps will really change a perspective! Haha
@looch: thank you. I'm sorry for being so short tempered the other day. I was so insanely emotional. I completely agree that sleep begets sleep, and I tried a lot to get L to sleep. But he would only take 40 minute naps, most days he'd only take 3 of those. Which then just made night times even worse.
@BananaPancakes: haha thanks for relating. I hope this all becomes a bad distant nightmare very soon! Haha
@Kemma: yep, but the minute I'd start shushing and patting and then leave, he would freak out. He never responded well too shushing and patting.
I can't stay and do that all day long, and on such little sleep I didn't have the patience to do it all day long either. Which is why at some point I need to just let him cry it out. Thanks for everyone's suggestions and support. Night two was 50% better than night one and last night was amazing!! I almost got a full 12 hour sleep. He woke up a few times (5) and fussed for less than 5 minutes and fell back asleep each time.
Since his sleep has gotten better, his naps have also improved immensely as well. He's also arms un swaddled which I was dreading, but he's adjusted to it like a champ.
Our days are soooo much better already.
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@.twist.: so glad night 2 was a lot better and things are looking up! watch, you are going to have one of those great experiences where CIO works in a few days, a week tops. fingers crossed! know how long mine took? months of two steps forward, one step back, and plateauing at consistent crying for 20 minutes before falling asleep (that was "good").
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@.twist.: Wow! Its working! I'm so glad!! So, what, do you just walk out and let him cry until he goes to sleep? As long as it takes? (I put E to bed 15 mins ago and have been back in there 6 times so far to reinsert her dummy.... I'm so ready to sleep train but I haven't got to that bit in the weissbluth book yet!!)
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@.twist.: Glad to hear things are looking up!! You got this, mama!
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Great update!
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@.twist.: sounds amazing! Had you already stopped night feedings before doing the sleep training? And how old is your LO? I can't rem ER exactly but I think you were close to my EDD?
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That is an amazing update.Hope things continue to go well!
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EEEEK HOORAY!!!!!!
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@.twist.: yay!!!!
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@edelweiss: oh no! I mean, we're only on day 4 tonight so there's still time for things to go awry! Haha
@Cherrybee: yep. I do our night routine and then put him in his crib, tell him I love him and will see him in the morning. Then I close the door and walk away. I watch him on the monitor to make sure he's ok, but I don't check on him in his room. He hardly cries at all when I put him to bed now and when he cries in the night, it's only been about 5 minutes tops. However, the first night was terrible! I was up almost all night watching him because he was pretty upset.
@Anagram: he's 4 months old. I hadn't night weaned at all until starting this. I bought a video from a sleep consultant and followed her night plan. She said that babies over 12lbs are capable of going 11 - 12 hours without eating, so it's important not to feed them because it just confuses them. She also stressed cutting them out cold turkey to avoid the process taking that much longer. The first night I did it was hard. I ended up calling a different sleep consultant that first day and crying to her about what a terrible mom I was and she only said what I was doing was right and that the first night is always hard and that it would get easier. And it has. But the second sleep consultant also stressed cutting night feeds cold turkey. Introducing a lovey and swaddling from the armpits down.
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@.twist.: Whaaaat? He's sleeping through? With no night feeds?? Oh crikey.... Im not ready for that yet..... we are still eating twice in the night.
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@Cherrybee: @.twist.: I was going to say the same thing!! We still have one night feed... gosh I wonder if she could drop that one too?
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@.twist.: Yay!! So happy to read this update! I wish M's nighttime sleep helped with naps. She sleeps like a rockstar at night (7:30-6:30 with one wakeup around 4), but her naps still suck
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@Cherrybee: @JoJoGirl: I think it's totally whatever you're comfortable with. I followed this woman's plan to the T (except for the no monitor business) because I have had information overload on what I should and should not do. So I needed someone to tell me exactly what my night should be. Which is why I cut them out cold turkey. I was thinking about re-introducing a feeding for night 2, but after talking with the second sleep consultant, I felt like I would be doing myself a disservice and taking us back a step if I started messing with the plan I'd already started.
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@lawbee11: for naps the consultant suggested putting them in their crib for the nap and leaving them there for 2 hours. Honestly I've had a harder time with this part of the plan than the night time part. He doesn't seem to do as well with the nap part of the plan. Not sure what I'm going to do about that....
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Glad things are much better!!
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@.twist.: so glad everything's better for you!! i just read through this thread, and there was a part where you mentioned you felt guilty for training her so young.... but if it makes you feel any better i did it even earlier so you aren't alone - http://www.hellobee.com/2012/09/26/sleep-training-noelle-part-i/
she is turning 3 in january, and is such an affectionate, well-adjusted loving, happy girl! i often worried if i did the right thing or if i damaged her... but seems like she's ok.
sleep is a wonderful thing for both baby and mama!
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@.twist.: are his naps usually 2 hours? My LO RARELY naps 2 hours, he naps more like 1:15 which is fine with me. Maybe if you're struggling with naps, 2 hours is just too long for him.
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@Mrs. High Heels: Whoa this was really helpful. Sorry to threadjack, but if my 6 month LO is sleeping 7:30-5, eating, then *sometimes* going back to sleep until 7ish, would you count that 5am as a nightwaking and I should be letting her cry 10-15 mins?
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@Mrs. High Heels: wow! Thank you so so much! I read through your sleep training posts and looked through your routines. I'm planning on implementing your daily schedule with Lukas ASAP. I was concerned about waking him up, because everyone says not to wake a sleeping baby, but that really messes with any naps for the day. I also would love to know how you did errands and stuff while sleep training? I feel like I'm going to be stuck in the house forever if he's on such a strict schedule. Noelle is such a beautiful little girl, I'm so happy that it worked for you and I feel even more confident that we are doing the right thing. Thaaaaank you!
@Ms.Badger: he will sleep anywhere from 2 - 3 hours for a nap on me. However, he wakes up after 40 minutes in his crib. I know he's still tired because he's exhibiting a lot of sleep cues but he just has trouble staying asleep. I have found over the last couple days that if I leave him for a few minutes to fuss and cry he will fall back asleep quite quickly.
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@Mrs. High Heels: oh, also, what if Noelle slept past her 2 hour nap, did you let her sleep or wake her up? I'm always so conflicted...
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@.twist.: I'm really glad it's working so well. You are giving me hope! C has actually taken 3 naps today, two short and currently a 2 hour plus nap on me. Hopefully it means a happier bedtime.
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@JoJoGirl: @.twist.: Oh, I'm so glad you guys found it helpful!
@JoJoGirl: I'm in the exact same spot right now and doing what you're doing! My 2nd one, DS, is now 8.5 months and still sleeping from 7:30-5am (sometimes 6am, but with the time change we're back at 5 am). I do let him fuss a little and assess. I wait at least 5 min before going to him - sometimes it doesn't escalate and he'll just play in his crib or fall back asleep so I won't go to him until 6 am... other times he'll cry pretty loudly so I'll go to him immediately and nurse him. If I do nurse him, sometimes he'd go back to sleep and sometimes he'd be up for the day (when that happens we just have an earlier first nap at around 8 am). I almost always wait at least 5-10 min before any waking, day or night. Sometimes he's happy just being in his crib playing, sometimes he'll fall back asleep, sometimes he'll get mad and start screaming and that's when I know that it's definitely time to go get him! I assess each situation differently based on what I hear and see on the monitor, but I always take a wait and see approach and try to let him sort it out on his own first if I can.
@.twist.: HB did not exist until Noelle was about 8 months, so I never heard the term "never wake a sleeping baby" until this site! So from the getgo, I always limited her naps and woke her up at certain times. It's soo awesome that you even HAVE to wake your LO because seems like a lot of babies nap poorly so I'd say that's a great thing!
With errands and stuff, I limited my errands to things that could be done in the 2-3 hour window between naps! I just learned to pick and choose. Once they hit 6 months it's a lot easier to do longer errands because that's when they start the 3-2 nap transition. I felt like I got so much time back, especially since they only needed to nurse every 4 hours too. What a difference nursing every 4 hours makes compared to every 3!
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@.twist.: In response to your question about waking for naps, it depends on the age - check out this doc I linked in my blog post - https://docs.google.com/document/d/11GHo4keUb2TVJUlSL1kD6HQcEgaNFBmzoQoOzcpcyas/edit?authkey=CPXE1bsO&hl=en_US&authkey=CPXE1bsO
If your LO is 4 months (btw, I just checked out your personal blog and he has the same bday as my husband!) - that chart recommends cutting off nap lengths at 2.5 hours at 4 months. It also recommends no more than a total of 4.5 hours worth of naps in order to preserve night sleep...
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@.twist.: Eeee!! I'm SO happy to read this! I hope it continues to get better and better for y'all!
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@Mrs. High Heels: ah thanks. Yea, he just falls asleep in the car seat so easily. Either that or cries. Haha maybe I'm doomed Thor running errands!
Thanks for the link I'll check it out! I so need to update my blog. Apparently lack of sleep makes blogging haaaard. Haha
Thor = for.
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@.twist.: Im a virtual recluse these days! I let naps rule my life!
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@.twist.: @Cherrybee: the sleep consultant I saw said that as long as we maintained or stuck to our routine more often than not then we would probably be ok. I used to try and spend every other day at home or just doing short errands at that age.
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@Kemma: ah thanks! That makes sense.
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@.twist.: I'm glad things are going better now. I would've killed for a 2+ hour nap, on me, at that age! He was taking 30 minute naps no matter where he was at, and usually on me. He is just now, knock on wood, starting to take 2 hour naps now that he's on a one nap schedule at 11m.
Luckily, it didn' t take too long (about a week).
I can't stay and do that all day long, and on such little sleep I didn't have the patience to do it all day long either. Which is why at some point I need to just let him cry it out. 
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