Hellobee Boards

@plantains: So, what about unvaccinated adults? Or adults that haven't had every single vaccine that the CDC now recommends? Which, ahem, is most of us, since even people my age who were vaccinated completely on schedule and per recommendations, but didn't get nearly the same number of inoculations that this generation's kids get. Sorry, it's just a big inconsistency I see. In my perspective, it seems like just another way of saying my kid is better than those kids.

@junebugmama: Not rude at all, it is a totally valid question! I don't ask them all now that she is older, but when she was under 6 months, yes I absolutely did.

Now, if they might become regular playmates i.e frequent playdates then I ask. It is a requirement in her daycare and most of her friends are from theer so I don't worry about that. Casual acquaitances, I don't ask but if they volunteer the information then I don't really want DD playing with unvaxed kiddos.

I don't know what will happen down the line as she gets older, theer is only so much I can do, but I do know that if it were up to me, I would limit her exposure as much as possible. I recognise however, that it isn't really practical.

@plantains: I wonder if the mamas I come in contact with just assume that we are fully vaxed, since I work for the hospital.

@deerylou: I'm sorry for derailing your thread. It's a point I see vehemently belabored on seemingly every vaccination thread on HB and today my 33-week pregnant self decided to be snarky about it.

FTR, I was referring to fully vaccinated children being kept from the unvaccinated ones. Not ones too little to receive certain innoculations.

We vaccinate 100% and feel strongly about it. I agree it's not an elitist issue but a public health issue.

*sigh* I don't think I'm being understood, but I'm not sure I should try to explain either, for want of wasted breath.

I'm not saying vaccination is or isn't a public health issue. But I don't understand how fully vaccinated children mixing with non-vaxxed/selectively-vaxxed children is a public health issue. I get the part about those with compromised immune systems and/or can't get those specific immunizations. I guess I just don't get the "absolutely not!" when vaccines are supposed to be so good. If my child is vaccinated against something that another one isn't, then, theoretically, I'm not supposed to worry, right? Their immunizations should be enough to protect them against what another child might be carrying, right? Or not?

It starts to feel like I should start sending my kids' vaccination records along to every birthday party and play date. Which, I totally get for immunocompromised kids, but I don't it for healthy, completely vaccinated kids. Is it really the very, very, very small risk that my child's diphtheria innoculations didn't take and an unvaccinated child just *might* be carrying diphtheria- is that it? That's why it seems to come across as a matter of "principle" and not one of risk to me.

@FarmWifeGina: to an extent, I do understand what you are saying, but for me given how serious some of these illnesses are I would kick myself if something did happen and I could have done something to prevent it, so at the moment it isn't a risk worth taking for me. It has nothing to do with seeing my kid as better than someone else's, I am just trying to protect the public health choice that I have made for myself and my family.

@FarmWifeGina: I don't think it's that black and white though. It is my understanding (and someone with more knowledge than I please chime in here) that even though my child is vaxed, he is not 100% protected against the disease. So while the chance is slim, it still exists.

@pinkcupcake: this is exactly what i was trying to say and failing at miserably. Thank you for putting it so clearly!

@IcebergMom: This is exactly what I wanted to say!! Pro vaccine or not, I'm just very grateful that our country has vaccines readily available for anyone who chooses to take them.

@scg00387: Yes. It's not always about individual-individual contact. It's a giant web and to keep it all together, we need most of the people connected through it to be protected.

@IRunForFun: Thank you for sharing that - I think it really added to the discussion.

@Mrs. Pen: Oops, sorry, should have mentioned that the daycare was an educational daycare for 3-and-4-year-old children. So they were all well beyond the age when they "should have" received the MMR vaccine.

@MsLipGloss: Of course. I just can't imagine a poor, innocent baby having to struggle with one of these illnesses. If I didn't have a strong opinion about it before, my personal experiences certainly helped me form one!

@Mrs. Pen: http://www.kidzdoc.com/uploads/files/pertussis-whooping-cough.pdf I just searched for pertussis; this states that adults can be carriers. My pedi said it was possible for anyone to be a carrier, and of course that someone vaccinated could still contest the disease and pass it on that way as well. I would guess that the same would be true for other diseases; there was a pertussis outbreak where I delivered so that's the only one I remember specifically asking about.

@Mrs. Pen: I can't point to any studies, but my understanding is that anyone can be a carrier of a virus. Whether that turns into sickness depends on your ability to fight it off - something that vaccinated individuals have a boost with. And that someone who is unvaccinated has a higher chance of carrying around and transmitting the virus as their body will take longer to eliminate its traces within their immune system, because they are starting from scratch having no existing antibodies to work against it.

@plantains: @pinkcupcake: @looch: Ok, I get it. It IS about risk to you, regardless of how much attitude I read into it here on the internet. Oh, those filthy, germy little children, they're not coming anywhere near mine. Again, calculated risk. Theoretically, one vaccinated child could get another vaccinated child sick for something for which they've both been vaccinated. Or a vaccinated child could get an unvaccinated one sick. Etc., etc. Sorry, just playing devil's advocate.

@deerylou: I guess I'm not talking about all-inclusiveness, I just didn't get why some parents seem to draw this line, to choose this hill to die on, so to speak. But what you're saying is common sense. I don't take my kids places when they're sick, and I very much appreciate it when other moms cancel play dates because they have nasty colds, vaccination status notwithstanding.

@FarmWifeGina: Please don't put words in my mouth, or keyboard, or whatever. I don't recall writing anything about germy children. My son's plenty germy.

In any event, your unvaxed child is still at risk when playing with my vaxed child, it is also about risk to your kid.

I don't really believe that herd immunity is as effective as everyone thinks. Mainly because, until fairly recently, vaccinations were believed to immunize an individual for life. Now we know they wear off and need to be readministered, something like at least every 10 years? I think it's different for every vaccine, regarding its longevity, and probably varies from individual to individual. So that means that for something like 50 years, most adults were not up-to-date on their vaccines. How did herd immunity function if this was the case? Also, what percentage of adults in the US do you think are up-to-date on their vaccines now? I would guess that's a pretty low number, but maybe not.

FWIW, I've spoken to my brother, who is a physician, about this. He claims that the vaccinations alter your DNA enough that, even if a titer doesn't show immunization for a given disease, if you contracted that disease after at some point being vaccinated for it, your body would still be able to fight the disease much better than someone who'd never been vaccinated. You would likely contract the illness, but wouldn't get as sick.

I don't know, it's a really hard decision for me, and not one I take lightly. We're choosing to delay vaccinations for now, because I don't feel like an infant's immune system is always strong enough to handle the increasingly high number of vaccinations they are being administered. I understand the concern of others regarding the safety of their children when they support CDC-scheduled vaccinations, but I will always do what I feel is best for my child.