Hellobee Boards

@septemberlove: People always seem to have this impression that most people on minimum wage or other forms of public assistance are taking advantage and that's simply not true. Just because you may know some people who take advantage, as you refer to in your first post, doesn't mean the majority do. This is why I think it's important to have empathy for low income people rather than be all suspicious that they're not "contributing members of society" or judging them for not going to college or vocational school. It's not always easy and it's made a million times harder if you have kids. If those kids were conceived by accident, that is unfortunate but I don't think it means the parents don't deserve any sympathy. People makes mistakes, they shouldn't be punished for life because of them. Also, if someone is working hard at a job, why should they be paid so little that they are unable to have a family? Is that like some kind of low income sterilization program? People don't just give out jobs that aren't useful in at least some way, so I don't see why there should be any jobs paid less than a living wage.

@septemberlove: “And to the idea that people "deserve" a living wage that they can raise a family on... Why did they have a family before they were able to support a family? “

Because people do this. People have always had children they can’t financially support (especially when options for low cost / no cost contraceptives are restricted), and they always will. This isn't a valid or logical argument. In an ideal world, only those people who could financially, emotionally and educationally support children would have them. Also, dessert would have no calories and we could all wish our troubles away. So, since you can’t dictate who can and can’t have children (unless you want government to step in in that way) why not focus on helping people to earn a living where they can support the children they do have without public assistance? If you can’t make much more busting your ass for 40 hours a week than you make collecting assistance; where’s the initiative to work and better yourself? If you can’t afford daycare and there is no state daycare-subsidizing program; how are you supposed to work?

I don’t think anyone is saying everyone should make “a lot” of money; but $7.25 an hour isn’t a livable wage. This is a pretty good visual: http://www.upworthy.com/how-many-minimum-wage-work-hours-does-it-take-to-afford-a-2-bdrm-apartment-in-yo

In NO state is someone on minimum wage able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment on 40 hours a week or less. How is that a system that works?

“For people who intentionally bring children into this world they can't take care of, I have zero empathy (for the kids though, that's a completely different story and the reason why my charitable contributions go to programs like Big Brothers Big Sisters).”

I have zero empathy too, frankly. BUT, the children are already here and as great as BBBS is (and it is!), kids and parents and assistance go hand in hand and you can’t separate them into blameless and the blamed. Food stamps feed children. Section 8 housing vouchers put a roof over children’s heads. Head start, daycare grants all make it possible for poor mothers to get out and work. Programs like ASPIRE and others aimed at college grants for low-income parents make it possible for those parents to go to college or trade school and provide better lives for their children. Cash assistance makes it possible to buy clothing, books and necessities for kids. You can't give those items directly and only to children because well, they are children. You can’t parcel out what’s for the “innocent” and what's for the “guilty”; unless we go back to a system of taking children from poor families and housing them in state run orphanages.

@MrsSCB: I think a lot of the opinions we individually develop on this subject are a product of our exposure. For example, I have seen many abuses of the systems and therefore it has tainted my impression of them. However, as I stated in my post, I would be the first one willing to help out a family or person who was trying to do the right thing. I just happen to have more of a cynical viewpoint because of what I have seen in my life. I just dont want there to be confusion that maybe because I am more cynical and have less faith in the systems because of the abusers I have seen does not in anyways affect the desire in me to help out those that are trying - it just means I would prefer to do so in other forms (through Charity, community programs, etc) as opposed to government programs which I personally dont think work.

@Mrs. Jacks: I have nothing to add to the discussion, I just wanted to say thanks for the links. Very informative.

@Mrs. Jacks: totally agree!

not to mention, a lot of what h as been mentioned on here ("I know someone who pulled himself up by his bootstraps" "I know someone who went from a min wage job to president of the company...")--those are great stories but anecdotal evidence is just that--anecdotal. It's not representative of what the experience is like for the majority of people struggling to make ends meet.

@andrea86: I'd like to see your citations for the current system being very wasteful. It might help us have a more productive conversation, because the data I read does not support the notion that it is creating more dependency or allowing people to live off the system more easily. In fact, the welfare reform of the 1990's has really made the system less accessible and provides more training and "hands up" rather than hand outs.

I believe that everyone should be accountable for themselves, to an extent, but sometimes shit happens and people need a little pick-me-up. Government assistance is a beautiful thing for those who need it but it does bother me when it's abused (we all know someone who knows someone who's done something shady). I'm thankful in that myself and my family has never needed to ask for help but it's nice to know that the option is there for those who genuinely do need it.

As for the higher education comments made by some posters, I think you're way off base. My husband doesn't have a college degree but he makes more money than most of the people that we know. He's lucky in that he's very good at what he does and he works in a field where his skills are needed. To say that he doesn't deserve his income because he didn't sit in a classroom for four years is ridiculous. I can't tell you how many people I know who slept their way through college or chose a total crap major and are now working dead end jobs. By your logic, they somehow deserve the higher paying jobs just because they elected to go to school, regardless of how well they excelled. Makes perfect sense.

@KissMeCait: I agree with you too.

It's all supply and demand. If you go to college, you may find yourself in a profession with a lower supply (or higher demand)... or you may not. Plenty of people pay a lot for school, and end up in a profession with a huge supply of people and/or no demand for services.

One big exception though is entrepreneurship... if you create your own job (rather than applying for one), then that's a game changer, I believe.