Holy hell. I always see posts like this on here but living through it feels like "OH THIS IS WHY THE NEWBORN STAGE IS SO HARD". My independent, strong-willed girl throws massive tantrums 1-2x/day where she gives off a high pitched scream, punches/scratches/pulls my hair, and in general has become completely defiant and unmanageable. I've read the tips already on Janet Lansbury's site and nothing works. I'm sad about my new inability to control myself when SHE gets out of hand, I just snap because I'm so done dealing with her. This happened twice yesterday. Lasts 45 min- hour each time. Help 
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My daughter was like this starting around 2.5 and it's only now - at 3.5 - that she has calmed down considerably. It's an awful stage and you have my sympathy.
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Are you trying to stop the tantrums? Or the behaviors that lead to the tantrums? I would say just let the tantrums happen. They are emotionally and mentally exhausting, but totally normal and honestly, you can't really control a toddler's reaction when they are upset!!
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Not sure what you are doing, but I agree with @hilsy85: ignore tantrums as much as possible! Do timeouts work for you guys at all? We do timeouts with Xander to stop behavior (sometimes having to go into timeout 3-4 times in a row before it stops), but we just ignore tantrums (as much as we can). There's a LOT of ignoring and drinking wine going on in my house right now because Xander is soooooooo emotional. "I don't want X!" "Okay, you don't have to have X." Cue emotional breakdown "I WANT X!!!"
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My 2 year old is a nightmare with crazy tantrums. My oldest was never like this, and when he did have tantrums we were able to control the situation. LO2 is stubborn and strong willed. It's tough, and I struggle daily. No techniques work with him, and something that might work one day will not work the next. I can relate.
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Hugs! 2-3 year olds are so tough. I know it's so hard to ignore and tune out a screaming flailing toddler, but I find that if it's a tantrum, there really isn't anything you can do until they snap out of it. When LO is really out of control, I make her go into her room until she cools down a bit- which can take anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour. I go in every once and awhile to ask if she has calmed dumb enough to talk, but usually she just yells at me to go away. Eventually she calms down enough to reason And talk to her.
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thanks everyone. DH and I are arguing about which tactic to take - I say ignore, he tries to stop (and was actually successful yesterday for the first time). Timeout certainly do not work. Triggers are things like saying it's time to eat dinner. Non-negotiables. Basically she gets triggered by telling her she has to do ANYTHING (and we already give her two choices for everything - eat dinner now or in 5 mins? Want milk or water with dinner?). Then she gets angry and hits me, then I say it's a time-out because of the hit, then the tantrum starts. And a timeout during a tantrum is a total waste.
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@JoJoGirl: Have you tried 5 mins till dinner time, 2 mins till dinner, 1 min till dinner? This seems to help my LO with transitions.
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How are you handling the tantrums? My two year old has been pretty nuts lately with tantrums and we have started using a few different strategies. If she is legitimately upset about something (even if the reason seems silly), I try to just hug her until she calms down. It seems to help her that we acknowledge she is upset (even if we don't really understand why). If she is having a tantrum in order to get a rise out of us, we ignore it and/or distract. And sometimes, it is pretty clear that the real issue is that she is hungry or tired, so we try to deal with that as soon as we can. Even though she still tantrums alot, I've been better at staying calmer since I feel like I have a better plan to deal with it.
Edited to add: Just saw your post about dealing with transitions. We have started using a timer on DH's cellphone with a nice chime. My LO does better if we do a countdown to the transition and then she hears the chime go off.
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@JoJoGirl: I agree with what @hilsy85: said.
Also, maybe you could prepare her a little more for transition times? I personally only use time outs for things like hitting. And our version is to just put her in her room (which is right off the living room because we are in an apartment) and tell her that's not ok and come out when she is ready to listen. We try not to give her a huge reaction because she may even be looking for negative attention. You could even try phrasing the non negotiable a differently so she feels like she has some sense of control which is what toddlers look for as far as my understanding goes. Like, instead of "were eating dinner now," you could maybe start five minutes earlier and ask if she wants to eat dinner now, or read a book or x activity and then eat dinner. Or ask her to help pick a plate or something like that. Might not work but could be worth a shot.
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And sometimes you have to just grin and bear it. Know that it's normal, she's normal, and it's not your fault but kids do this at this age.
I also read "raising your spirited child" around that time.
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To add to the chorus, I do find that LO does well with countdowns and sometimes the use of a timer - particularly with regard to television/computer time.
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Yes, we give her time warnings. Nothing helps. She does not like being told what to do and is just defiant (she went to her first solo swim class yesterday and afterward the teacher literally said "WOW. She's so... independent. She just wants to do her own thing and not do what people tell her").
Yes, we've caught on that she also is much more susceptible to tantrums when she is hungry or tired - which is why I was so frustrated last night. I was TRYING to give her dinner when she threw the tantrum and then we couldn't get her to eat. Once she's all wound up, it's too late.
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@JoJoGirl: 2.5 was a really hard age for us (I wrote a similar post:
http://boards.hellobee.com/topic/25-3-years-a-really-tough-time)Cutting out tv in the morning helped ENORMOUSLY. Also, I try to avoid things that he HAS to do. For dinner, I say that it will be on the table if he is hungry. I also tell him that if he gets hungry later, there will be no more food so he need to eat now if he wants to eat. But sometimes he just doesn't want to eat. and that's ok. I minimize battles. If he screams "NO DINNER", I just say, "Ok!You don't have to eat if you don't wan to". For things like getting dressed--choices don't work for us, so I ask if he would like to help get dressed or if he wants me to do it (which means basically holding him down and forcing it). He generally chooses to help me get himself dressed. I stopped doing time outs for hitting because it didn't seem to stop the behavior. Instead I have started holding his hands and telling him I won't let him hit because that's not safe. And I move away if necessary.
But honestly, if you feel like time outs are working, but she is just tantruming befcause she doesn't like the time out--that's ok. She's allowed to be upset, and that's generally how they express feeling upset! Also try the book, Hands are Not for Hitting--it was helpful for us.
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@hilsy85: Thanks so much. I suppose I should mention that we just went on a 9 day international trip so she is VERY out of her routine and probably exhausted. And had a TON of screen time down there because there was literally nothing else for her to do (our fault planning a baby-friendly but not toddler-friendly vacation 8 months ago). hopefully now that she's back on her normal routine she'll be a bit better, but she had already started hitting before we left. We got "that" call from her preschool teacher a week before our trip
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@hilsy85: Also, thanks for sharing your experience - DH is in the "hold her hands and legs down to get her to stop hitting" camp which bothers me, but again it actually worked yesterday and calmed her down almost instantly (apparently he saw it on SuperNanny).
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@JoJoGirl: Yeah I don't do it in like physical straitjacket way, more just in a gently blocking way. Recommended by Janet Lansbury as well--apparently makes them feel like there are clear boundaries and helps them feel safe that we won't let them physically harm someone else--protecting them from their own temper sort of thing.
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@hilsy85: He said it worked. I don't know. Also I'm scared to death of letting her skip a meal since this stuff is always triggered by hunger. She's hypoglycemic like her mom and grandpa
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@JoJoGirl: ah gotcha. Well if she is clearly hungry but won't eat (and the hunger is causing the tantrum)--we've had success with offering one or two "special" snacks alongside dinner--like he loves crackers but those are clearly not dinner, but if I put some on a plate next to actual dinner, he sometimes ends up eating his actual dinner as well. Worked last night anyway! But that is one of the most frustrating things--you're effing hungry, just eat!!
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@hilsy85: Right? I mean that's ONE example. She also threw a tantrum yesterday because I wouldn't let her do something dangerous (trying to crawl on the couch over the edge). She throws them when it's time to leave the house to go somewhere. She often throws them because she wants her lovey and paci from her room, which we have ALWAYS limited to naps and bedtime. Just about not getting her way with anything
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@JoJoGirl: Around that age we had to stop the choices. You need to do XYZ or there will be a consequence. Your choice is eat now and be happy or cry and scream alone in your room while we eat.
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I just wanted to chime in and say, hang in there. DD is 6 now, but when I think back to the age of your DD, I literally shudder. Mine was equally as nightmarish and in our case it was a major push on her part for independence and testing her (and our) boundaries and limitations.
The upswing? She's now a super independent girl and I LOVE it. Going through those tough times as a mum certainly made me stronger not only in my role and ability as a mum, but also in my unwavering commitment to her. It a TOUGH job.
Heres to hoping she passes through this stage sooner rather than later!
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@Autumnmama79: Thanks so much. A post-partum doula warned us when she was 6 *weeks* old that we'd have this issue with her around now (she was already very opinionated - only slept a certain way, only ate a certain way, was only soothed a certain way). Said "this is a trait that makes GREAT women and AWFUL babies/toddlers". Waiting for the payoff
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@T.H.O.U.: Yes! This.
I have nannied for a family of 7 kids, a family of 3 toddlers, and now have two toddlers of my own and there is no reason to give toddlers a choice about when they are eating or what they are doing (unless the choice is like "would you like to play ball or blocks" and even then sometimes the choice is just too hard for them to make without a tantrum!!). Life is overwhelming for toddlers. They need consistent direction and they need consequences when they refuse to comply to an authority's request.
My son is also very bright, independent and take charge and unfortunately it requires staying ahead of him and disciplining (that sounds harsh - but I really mean it as loss of privileges, sitting in room, etc.) and within a few consequences he is a much happier, kinder kid. When I don't stay on top of him I hate my life because he can make it miserable. That's the hard part - being consistent! But I need to be because without that I have a toddler who throws epic tantrums and with consistency we have little blips now and again that are manageable and quite typical.
I know people say the big, screaming, lasts up to an hour tantrums are typical but I actually don't buy that. I would say that's only typical when a toddler's behavior goes unmanaged for too long. They crave boundaries and knowing what is going on.
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@Autumnmama79: This is my son as well, although, I think our payoff will be later...my MIL always says that I won't have to worry about my son being swayed by a group because he is so opinionated.
@JoJoGirl: Hang in there. I think it's a difficult time, especially when you get the call from the teacher about hitting. It's not like we're modeling this behaviour at home, so I feel extra horrid and worry about what everyone is thinking about my family!
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I am so sorry you're going through this. I have definitely been there with my strong willed girl too. What I have found works for us (at least for now) is to initially let her tantrum in her room for a few minutes until she gets some of it out of her system. Then I go into her room and sit on the floor. I'll ask her if she wants me to stay or go and she'll usually say (through tears) "stay." Then I try to talk in a calm voice and tell her I can see she's upset about whatever it is. I tell her I love her very much, and sometimes I list out everyone else who loves her (daddy, grandma, grandpa, etc). This seems to help her calm down. Eventually she usually comes to sit with me and we hug and talk about it.
I've found that time outs during the tantrum don't really help because I think deep down she needs reassurance from us that we still love her.
Hang in there, it will get better. At 3.5 the mega-tantrums are much fewer these days.
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@coopsmama: Agree. It was my mom (ok I'm an adult and can admit my mom was right) that we were simply giving her too many choices and overwhelming her.
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I second "Hands are not for hitting" and "Feet are not for Kicking". We have those books as well. LO is now 4 but some of these issues still get us.
There are certain things that distract her. For mealtimes, when you give the warning, can you also give her an age appropriate chore? We use a lot of paper plates in our house because LO can put those on the table. She can put our plastic cups out. She can put napkins out. She likes to feel like she's helping and contributing. It smooths our transition.
For safety things, she loves the police but also has a healthy fear. If I can't talk her out of a safety situation, I ask her if she'd like me to have the police visit our house so they can explain to her why she's being unsafe. That will usually curb the behavior and she immediately starts looking for them.
Reward charts were big for us at 2.5. Pick a situation (mealtime) and give her a sticker when she doesn't tantrum. We let our girl pick her reward for getting 10 stickers. She wanted ice cream. And we took a trip to the local fro yo place when she earned it.
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My 2.5 year old is totally like this. I cannot even believe how upset a 2 year old can make me! I have started just dumping him in his room when he acts like this. I don't even bother calling it a time out, I just carry him in there (while he flails and screams and fights me), dump him on his bed, and tell him he can come out when he's ready to be nice. If he comes out still mad, back in he goes. When he comes out acting nicely I give him a hug, he says sorry, and later we talk about things he can do when he's mad besides screaming/hitting/fits/whatever. But in the moment, putting him in the room is the best way to be sure I keep my emotions in check.
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@hilsy85: re: getting dressed, I consider that a choice! Lol I also consider whether you want to sit in your room or eat dinner a choice. Maybe not a pleasant choice but it's not like she gets to run around wild.
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@wonderstruck: That sounds like us. I'll try her bedroom next time - I've read not to put them there when they misbehave as they'll associate their bed with punishment. But she may be beyond that now.
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@MamaG: We should try that. We've never done a sticker chart or rewards system.
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@JoJoGirl: I've heard that too, but I'm desperate and so far it hasn't created any issues. Hope it helps!
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@JoJoGirl: Wow that is one heck of a doula. Isn't it crazy how they know these things? Our doula was spot on too about our DD's future personality when DD was just a newborn as well.
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You aren't alone! 2.5 is a crazy age!
I would say definitely don't give her a choice about non-negotiable things like dinner. Just say in a calm and firm voice, we're having dinner! You can say it a couple of times as the time approaches. I think too much choice overwhelms them. You can make sure she feels like she's getting choices in other areas like what toys to play with, what socks she's wearing, etc.
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@MoonMoon: We had this issue AGAIN last night. Kicking and screaming saying she didn't want dinner. I thought about not forcing it, but i feel like she'd meltdown more when hungry! Then if she's too worked up, she can't eat. It seems totally hopeless.
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@JoJoGirl: When R says that she doesn't want dinner, I just say fine. Then if she asks for a snack, I say your dinner is still on the table. Some nights she goes to bed hungry. I will give her milk to drink those nights but otherwise she gets water with dinner.
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@Smurfette: Hmmmmmm fascinating.
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@JoJoGirl: Is there a chance you're already waiting too long for dinner? Can you try giving a healthy snack before dinner (slice of cheese, frozen veggies, etc) just to keep blood sugar levels normal until the real dinner?
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@2littlepumpkins: ha I guess it's a choice but it's one where I am fine with either answer, not one where there is something for him to say no to--if he says no, I will just do it for him. At least getting dressed is something I CAN force, unlike eating or using the potty...
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